Why soy free?? (And the effects of soy)

[Brunty_Farms]

I think this thread has went way off topic.... back to the OP... Soy for chickens is not as big a deal as many may make it. Chickens obviously eat just about everything.... they have evolved to thrive off of insects, forage, and weed seeds. Soy would be a seed/grain, very good for your chickens.

We have different effect of eating soy than chickens. That doesn't mean we should stop feeding it to our chickens... I guess a good way to understand it is to put it in another perspective. Pigs love poison ivy so do goats. However if I started munching on the glossy leaves... I'm going to be in trouble. However if i eat the goat or pig... that's not the case. Soy kinda has the same effect on chickens. Think of those pesticides that are sprayed... similar to the ones in poison ivy.

However I do believe that too much of the insecticide is sprayed... if used in the correct dosages, it's not as harmful as it may come across. I wish LazyJ would chime in as I'm sure he knows quite a bit on this very topic. Being in the feed business I'm sure this is a highly heated topic.

Also to point out soy and corn are high in Omega 6's not omega 3's. Omega 6's derive from the seeds of plants and only three seeds contain an equal balance of the two fatty acids. I can think of two off of the top of my head... I believe it's flax and hemp... not sure what the third is but I know it's not soybeans. Your body needs an equal balance of the two to not throw things out of wack in your body. Most Americans have high levels of Omega 6's which is the root of a lot of degenerative diseases and other underlying issues. Which is why you see a big fad in Omega 3 pills, fish oils, and flax oils. Even some commercial egg laying farms have taken advantage of this by feeding lower amounts of soy and higher amounts of flax seed. Making the Saturated fat lower, higher in certain vitamins, and higher in O'3's.

However soy is not the culprit in many cases. The biggest problem in these so called vegetarian diets for chickens is the fact that there is so little diversity. Chickens need the protein... and they need more than what soy can provide them. They need insects, or some kind of meat products. I prefer fishmeal, soy, and alfa meal to be added. Also if you get a custom mix get ROASTED soy beans... not the by-product soybean meal. There is a lot of products that derive from soybeans... if you keep it in it's original form... the better the nutrients... and the more wholesome it is.

Feeding chickens soy, is not one of my main concerns... however a diversified diet is.

 

[CARS]

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That is not entirely true. Soybeans are a huge cash crop here in S. MN. It is on a rotation with corn. Yes, the nitrogen helps the corn the following year, but $10.00 a bushel is not a ag waste.

 

[PaulaJoAnne]

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That is not entirely true. Soybeans are a huge cash crop here in S. MN. It is on a rotation with corn. Yes, the nitrogen helps the corn the following year, but $10.00 a bushel is not a ag waste.

I think that is the point. It has been made into a cash crop, rather then it still being used as a green manure, as it used to be.

 

[PaulaJoAnne]

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Actually feeding to our chickens as their main protein source does have an affect on us.
We eat the egg and the chickens themselves at some point.
Now, I think I would have no problem if they were given a few beans a week, as a part of what would naturally be a very diverse diet.

The problem many are running into, is the allergies people have and are developing to soy.
Many quite literally cannot eat eggs and meat where the main source of protein for the animal was soy.
They get very sick as a result.

 

[Wifezilla]

I think that is the point. It has been made into a cash crop, rather then it still being used as a green manure, as it used to be.

That's exactly the point...thanks

 

[CARS]

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That's exactly the point...thanks

Sorry, I had a dense moment and it went right over my head.

With saying that, I was born on a grain farm and beans were half of our crop/income. I can't imagine the family farm surviving without soybeans. They are not only profitable but added many benefits to the soil.

I see now that many have problems with/from soybeans, and that is truly sad. Hopefully someone will come up with a better, affordable alternative to soy. Using organic beans don't change anything and the other grains that others are using really aren't available to me.

Thanks for the good discussion!

 

[wood&feathers]

I doubt I can contribute anything new to what is said about soy, but I would not use fish meal from commercial sources as a substitute. The "mining" of our near shore waters for menhaden and other small oily fish for animal feed (largest consumer - aquaculture) is tragic. They are the footings near the bottom of the pyramid, they feed everything else. Probably very healthy for our chickies, but not our oceans and bays.

Apparently menhaden fishing is extremely profitable. Fishermen use a veritable fleet of ships, small boats and helicopters to strip Cheseapeake Bay of menhaden. If you want to add fish protein to your chickens diet, catch some fish and feed them the guts and other leftovers.

I can't wait to see what my gals do with a bluegill eyeball...

 

[ziggywiggy]

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I have to disagree with you. Many crops are beneficial to the soil by providing nitrogen. Alfalfa and sorghum are perfect examples. Farm managers are usaully pretty good at knowing how to rotate their crops. If soy was just a waste crop, they would plant something else. There is a huge market for soy and it is very high in protien. That's why it is planted.

 

[bibliophile birds]

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diversity is really important and almost completely ignored by people who don't research chicken feed. but soy is still a huge problen. it bioamplifies as it moves up the food chain. that is not good news. it might not have negetive affects on the chickens themselves (particularly as a part of a diverse diet) but the isoflavones move into the eggs and meat that we eat and into us. i, for one, have been directed by my doctor not to eat animals who have been fed soy. it's not something i take lightly.

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the financial benefits of soy are a byproduct of it's agricultural use. it was orginally planted on corn farms simply as a way to fix nitrogen. then Big Ag realized they could market it as fillers and additives as they had corn so it became a major cash crop. this has actually done more to HARM farmers than to help them as it devalues other crops and forces them to plant more and more each year. as the market is flooded with so much cheap corn and soy, farmers can't make a profit unless they plant so much that they get lots of subsidies. and it gets worse each year that more corn and soy are planted.

wood&feathers :

I doubt I can contribute anything new to what is said about soy, but I would not use fish meal from commercial sources as a substitute. The "mining" of our near shore waters for menhaden and other small oily fish for animal feed (largest consumer - aquaculture) is tragic. They are the footings near the bottom of the pyramid, they feed everything else. Probably very healthy for our chickies, but not our oceans and bays.

and then there is the problem that so much fish is farmed on corn and soy these days anyway that fish isn't a necessarily safe source of soy-free protein. your plan to catch your own is great though. wish i didn't hate fishing...​

 

[Mac in Wisco]

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That's a ridiculous assumption. Soybeans have been domesticated and raised for food for thousands of years. While not generally cared for as table food in the early U.S., it was planted in the mid-19th century as livestock fodder. The practice and benefits of crop rotation wasn't even well understood until the 20th century.