Will he grow out of it?

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PLEASE DO NOT USE THE METHOD DESCRIBED ABOVE!!!!

Instead use some of the other ways that others have said. I would also start some obedience training right away to establish rank and respect. Good luck
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This was vet reccomended ,she showed me how to do it ,and she got the message right way, as long as you don't yell at the dog ,it's fine. A puppy learns to be a real dog by his parents who will place them on there backs, it shows domanance, holding the muzzle reinforces it. this is why a puppy should stay with thier parents for 8 weeks,my bichon had the worlds worst mom which didn't help. A toy helps with a dog who is teething/playing but a dog who bite to show domanace is a diff. story. My dog is 3 year old is well trained and not we have no fear of her biting. My new puppy is a mouth dog so we say no and give a toy.
 
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A dog never forces another dog on it's back unless they intend to kill that dog. The submissive dog when it knows it's done wrong will place itself on it's back as a sign to the dominant dog. This behavior was observed in wolves and completely misinterpretted which led to the "alpha roll". Forcing a dog on it's back is a very bad practice. It can make both fearful dogs and dominant dogs much worse and cause them to act out or bite out of defensiveness. It is also never necessary. Like I said one dog only forces the other on it's back when it intends to kill it. If you show dominant behavior and threaten your dog it should just fall over. I've put my akita on the ground before but I didn't have to flip her over and hold her there. I grabbed the scruff of her neck and pushed in to her space. She fell right over and laid there until I moved back even after I'd let go of her neck.

The other problem with using such strong discipline is that using it a lot makes it less of a big deal and makes them less likely to listen to softer methods. I've only been that rough with my akita when it was a very serious situation like her attempts to kill one of my cats as a puppy. Because I've rarely handled her rough if I so much as tap her with sharp voice or body language she flattens and immediately stops what she's doing. She's not scared of me, she knows I would never seriously hurt her, but she respects and she knows that I rarely use force so even the lightest amount of force gets her attention.


All puppies go through mouthy stages. You should encourage playing with toys only and not your skin but I don't entirely agree with the never letting a dogs mouth on you. Bite inhibition comes from testing the limits and knowing when a bite is too hard not just failing to bite. It's kind of like when someone disciplines their dog every time it growls. Eventually yes you get a dog that doesn't growl but you haven't changed the dog's dislike of the situation. The dog is still unhappy and now you don't get a warning of that before it bites. You just made an unpredictable animal instead of a safer one. I wrestled with my akita all the time while she was growing up and sometimes as an adult. She put teeth to skin all the time. She's never annoying about it, she stops the instant you tell her to, and she has wonderful bite inhibition. She can perfectly judge how much force to apply to leave a bruise, break the skin, or crunch bones together and carve teeth marks through flesh. She also has the knowledge of when each of those situations are appropriate. The last one has so far only been applied to a raccoon that was going to attack me. She didn't gain that knowledge by me never allowing her to test her teeth. She learned by me actually letting her put her mouth on me while we wrestled or played and then telling her when it was too rough. As well as leading by example in how rough I treated her, how rough I treated the other animals in the house, and how rough I let her treat the other animals in the house. Just be consistent about stopping play when it's too rough and only use as much force as is necessary. Many times as young puppies you do have to distract them with toys so they bite toys instead of skin.

Also work on being able to stop play. Start a game of tug of war with a toy, use a word for stop like "enough", and then stop pulling. Don't let go, just stop pulling, and go with the dog until it let's go of the toy. Then praise and begin play again. Then whenever things get out of hand all you have to do is say "enough" and the dog will stop whatever it's doing whether it's playing with you or something else. Generally when it's something else I also add "leave it". So if a cat or chicken is being roughed up or looks like it's going to get roughed up I can call out "enough! leave it!" and point the dogs the other way and they'll leave. Also work on things like "give" or "drop". Easiest with 2 toys. Have the dog play with or fetch one, tell it to "give/drop", and then pull out the 2nd toy and throw it. The dog will usually drop the first to go after the 2nd. Work up to holding the toy the dog has while pulling out the 2nd one and eventually to not switching toys. A very nonforceful way of getting dogs to give up even valuable items in the future. Little things like that will first off keep your puppy busy while learning so it doesn't have time to grab skin, second give you an arsenal of commands you can apply to stop behaviors, and third help move you up to leader of the pack instead of chew toy.
 
Quote:
PLEASE DO NOT USE THE METHOD DESCRIBED ABOVE!!!!

Instead use some of the other ways that others have said. I would also start some obedience training right away to establish rank and respect. Good luck
smile.png


I have to agree that this method can backfire and I would not recommend it at all.
 
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Sorry DNTD, this method is dangerous, and your Vet is severely misinformed. Actually some of the very worst dog training and behavior "tips" I have ever heard have come from Veterinarians. Vets get very little schooling in animal behavior. Their knowledge comes from poor sources usually: outdated dog training books, owners who aren't trainers, ect.

Alpha rolling has hardly any place in dog training and is dangerous for both you and your dog. Can damage the relationship between you and cause MORE problems later. People I see most with facial scarring from dogs: Groomers are #1 cause they are often seeing a dog eye to eye on a grooming table, #2 comes from people who alpha roll their puppies/dogs.
 
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thats what i do... i dont allow my dogs to ever put their teeth on me..
 
My dh employs the method that a pups mother would use.
He will nip the pups ear, just hard enough to make the pup whimper a bit.
Its very effective, and it does nto harm the pup either.
 
Quote:
PLEASE DO NOT USE THE METHOD DESCRIBED ABOVE!!!!

Instead use some of the other ways that others have said. I would also start some obedience training right away to establish rank and respect. Good luck
smile.png


Yup! what she said!
I learned my lesson with this... I used to do this with my female Saint Bernard..(because she wouldnt stop jumping up on us, no matter what we tried..and she could hurt someone ).. at first she tolerated it.( a few times..)..THEN she started to fight back.... She growled at me and put her teeth on my wrist that was holding her down... that was her warning to me and i listened to it...Because she had NEVER been agressive before..so i knew that i was messing her up BIG TIME.. Not good!
But..THEN i was stuck..because i couldnt let her win.... ugh..what a mess! So i contacted a Bernard trainer and she told me how to handle her with a prong collar..(i only had to use the collar on her for 1 week!...I swear to god! )
So anyways... if you FORCE your dog into this Alpha roll..you are FORCING them into a dog fight with you!!!.... and they have NO choice (in their minds) but to protect themselves and fight back with you.... its how people get bit! Then people blame the dogs!!
he.gif

Now i honestly have no problems with her..shes still a gentle sweet heart (thank god!)..but if i had kept doing that Alpha roll she would have turned on me..i KNOW it.
 
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I recommend you review the advice from Jaime--dog--trainer, Akane and myself as well as the caveat from Redhen. Professionally, I highly recommend you never use the alpha roll--ever. You should give the pup toys to bite down on so he gets out that need to try out his teeth--but if you get bitten too hard you should use the puppy squeal and withhold play. Dogs need to learn to have soft mouths on flesh unless trained otherwise. I have a Belgian Malinois who is protection trained but she never hurts us even if she is excited when tugging. I do not use any harsh training whatsoever and yet this highly intense breed of dog who is incredibly gentle with children would take down an armed intruder without hesitation. Patience, training, respect, consistency and love are necessary to have a well trained dog. Best of luck with your puppy hood adventure!
 

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