Windy hill chickens - first flock(s) of my own

[BDutch]

They're also "fully" vaccinated, not that I can remember the complete list of what that covers offhand.

Vaccinated chickens can be carrier of a disease without getting sick from the virus it’s vaccinated for.

I don’t know much about it other than I read from people who get sick chicks if they mingle vaccinated with not vaccinated. Especially Marek can get nasty that way.

 

[ChickyCh00k]

Vaccinated chickens can be carrier of a disease without getting sick from the virus it’s vaccinated for.

I don’t know much about it other than I read from people who get sick chicks if they mingle vaccinated with not vaccinated. Especially Marek can get nasty that way.

If I've read the research correctly, vaccinated birds are not "carriers", but that the vaccine can be "leaky", meaning that an unvaccinated bird can transmit Marek's to a vaccinated bird (who may not have symptoms) and then that vaccinated bird can pass Marek's to unvaccinated birds.

From The American Poultry Association
https://www.amerpoultryassn.com/2022/07/mareks-disease-vaccination/

"Vaccinated birds and unvaccinated birds can be put together, but you need to be aware that although the virus used for the vaccination will not cause disease in unvaccinated birds, the vaccine is “leaky,” which means vaccinated birds can still get the chicken version of Marek’s from infected birds. The vaccine helps prevent the bird from developing symptoms and tumors, but a vaccinated bird who has gotten a chicken form of Marek’s can pass that along to an unvaccinated bird.

In the past, a particular study has often been quoted to discourage use of the vaccine by implying that the vaccinated birds may cause more mutations in the virus, resulting in vaccines that don’t work and a worse variant of Marek’s. Thankfully a more recent study can calm our fears about that worry. This study found that vaccinated birds actually help decrease both the amount and the severity of Marek’s in their unvaccinated coop mates. Vaccinated birds are protecting unvaccinated birds to some extent. We don’t know if vaccinated birds actually pass some of the harmless turkey virus on to other chickens, since there has not been a documented case of that. Or it could just decrease the viral load on the unvaccinated birds by keeping infection to minimum. But we do know that the leaky nature of the vaccine is not causing the mutations that earlier studies worried about."

Here is a research article on a similar topic:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7058279/#:~:text="Leaky" vaccination of chickens infected,is rarely taken into consideration.

"Here, we use transmission experiments involving Marek disease virus (MDV) in chickens to show that vaccination with a leaky vaccine substantially reduces viral load in both vaccinated individuals and unvaccinated contact individuals they infect. Consequently, contact birds are less likely to develop disease symptoms or die, show less severe symptoms, and shed less infectious virus themselves, when infected by vaccinated birds. These results highlight that even partial vaccination with a leaky vaccine can have unforeseen positive consequences in controlling the spread and symptoms of disease."

"Leaky" vaccination of chickens infected with Marek“s disease virus reduced symptoms and lowered mortality in the unvaccinated contact birds infected by them. The cause was transmission of lower virus loads from vaccinated than unvaccinated birds; this benefit of leaky vaccination is rarely taken into consideration."

 

[kattabelly]

Vaccinated chickens can be carrier of a disease without getting sick from the virus it’s vaccinated for.

I don’t know much about it other than I read from people who get sick chicks if they mingle vaccinated with not vaccinated. Especially Marek can get nasty that way.

Aye I'm not saying because they've had a few vaccinations everything will definitely be fine, it's just one more factor fairly low down on the list of reasons I haven't quarantined. A big commercial operation like they've come from should also have better biosecurity than random backyard breeders on Facebook or wherever.

 

[BDutch]

Everyone makes their own choices of course. And you sound as if you know very good the risks are very low. Sure it will be alright. I’m just afraid to buy chicks or chickens bc it is (or was) difficult to quarantine properly in my coop/run.

Let me explain:
When I bought my first chicks 11 years ago, it seemed I bought sick chicks. Which was not a pleasant start.

I was always very cautious after this and reading about heartbreaking experiences from other people.

So the next year I decided not to buy chicks or chickens anymore. Only fertilised eggs and let a broody hatch some eggs.

I broke my own rule once, after loosing 3 hens in one season (sick eyp, a sudden dead and a predator) I was looking for fertile eggs on ‘marketplace.online’ and encountered an add from a girl who couldn’t keep her lonely hen.
Bc it was a bit late in the season and we planned to go on a vacation 2 or 3 weeks later, I decided to add this adult hen to my existing flock instead. Bc she lived alone for a few months she was hardly a risk.

The result is that I never had sick chickens apart from the two mentioned above. They where from a breeder who tried to contribute with others to re-establish an almost extinct breed (Naine de Tournaisis) . Looking back I think they were weak bc of the (in) breeding program.

 

[kattabelly]

Urgh. Trying to decide which cockerels to keep.

I'm absolutely not one of those people who thinks 95% of cockerels are awful and another 4% just haven't turned bad yet, but eating a few was always the plan. I'd need much more space that they could have access to all day, unsupervised, to even attempt to keep close to a 1:1 ratio which is about where they're at now (not counting the Shetlands because I still have no idea what's happening with them).

Was really hoping to keep at least one of the two rock boys but they both have quite narrow set legs and are somewhat knock-kneed. Not ideal for birds that are already chunky at almost 16 weeks old and only going to get heavier - A already looks like he's struggling slightly at times, and spends more time sitting than I'd like - and definitely not a trait I want to pass on future generations. I keep finding myself trying to come up with excuses to keep one anyway, like the leg thing could be bred out with the right pairings. It's about time for the terrible teens to hit but they've both been angels up till now, probably helped by the Sussex pullets not being afraid to put them in their place.

The two Sussex cockerels are still living in their separate bachelor pen and getting out to range at different times from the others. I've been putting off dealing with them a bit, partly because they're still in that skinny teenage phase and a lot of early mornings have been grim weather-wise and partly because I'd feel better having a proper plan about what to do with the rest, first.

The older black and white cockerel is enormous now and while he's more or less ok with the pullet in that group, I'm worried he could do some damage to the slightly younger pullets while they're not old enough to be assertive with him and he's not old enough to have learnt good manners. Only having had one pullet in his group up till now obviously doesn't help as he's more likely to act like a sex-starved maniac when he's around new girls for the first time. It's just a question of how much of a chance he gets to grow up, or whether replacing him with a younger cockerel now would just be the easiest option. I've similar concerns about Mr Fancy-Pants but it's hard to know how he would act if the more dominant cockerel from his group was removed.

I potentially have a few other options as well, after letting a friend use my incubator for some eggs they'd brought back from a trip south. They're only four weeks old and not in with my other birds yet though.

 

[BDutch]

Urgh. Trying to decide which cockerels to keep.

I'm absolutely not one of those people who thinks 95% of cockerels are awful and another 4% just haven't turned bad yet, but eating a few was always the plan. I'd need much more space that they could have access to all day, unsupervised, to even attempt to keep close to a 1:1 ratio which is about where they're at now (not counting the Shetlands because I still have no idea what's happening with them).

Was really hoping to keep at least one of the two rock boys but they both have quite narrow set legs and are somewhat knock-kneed. Not ideal for birds that are already chunky at almost 16 weeks old and only going to get heavier - A already looks like he's struggling slightly at times, and spends more time sitting than I'd like - and definitely not a trait I want to pass on future generations. I keep finding myself trying to come up with excuses to keep one anyway, like the leg thing could be bred out with the right pairings. It's about time for the terrible teens to hit but they've both been angels up till now, probably helped by the Sussex pullets not being afraid to put them in their place.

The two Sussex cockerels are still living in their separate bachelor pen and getting out to range at different times from the others. I've been putting off dealing with them a bit, partly because they're still in that skinny teenage phase and a lot of early mornings have been grim weather-wise and partly because I'd feel better having a proper plan about what to do with the rest, first.

The older black and white cockerel is enormous now and while he's more or less ok with the pullet in that group, I'm worried he could do some damage to the slightly younger pullets while they're not old enough to be assertive with him and he's not old enough to have learnt good manners. Only having had one pullet in his group up till now obviously doesn't help as he's more likely to act like a sex-starved maniac when he's around new girls for the first time. It's just a question of how much of a chance he gets to grow up, or whether replacing him with a younger cockerel now would just be the easiest option. I've similar concerns about Mr Fancy-Pants but it's hard to know how he would act if the more dominant cockerel from his group was removed.

I potentially have a few other options as well, after letting a friend use my incubator for some eggs they'd brought back from a trip south. They're only four weeks old and not in with my other birds yet though.

Many choices makes it harder to decide.

 

[cavemanrich]

I rest my case

 

[kattabelly]

I rest my case

View attachment 4218854

Which ones though?!

 

[cavemanrich]

Which ones though?!

Decision is entirely yours.

 

[kattabelly]

Decision is entirely yours.

Thanks for the helpful advice