Winter waterer without electricity no freezing

[Alaskan]

If you have a couple hours of sun during the winter one could use a small solar set up.

Something like this - specwise.

https://www.renogy.com/200-watt-12-volt-solar-starter-kit/

Add a cheap deep cycle marine battery for $75-100. A small inverter for $25-75. Put a timer outlet on the inverter.

It would provide enough power to periodically run whatever water heater method you want to use depending on your sun hours in the winter.

The problem is that batteries can't sit outside when it gets really cold.

And there is so little solar gain from solar panels in the winter.

I know batteries are getting better.....

 

[saysfaa]

I'm sure I can figure out something better than eating snow for water; snow isn't a very good source. A smaller inner bucket or larger outer bucket would give more room for insulation. Possibly a two chambered "inner bucket" to allow one that the chickens can reach to have warm water next to the other that the chickens can't reach with boiling water or a reusable hand warmer packets.

There is a new kind of insulation that gives twice the R value per inch of thickness. Aerogel. A very quick look shows it isn't too bad pricewise. I don't know how available it is in small quantities, though. At my scale, I probably won't look further into it.

 

[saysfaa]

My neighbor works full time too. I may be soon, too. I hope to have it set up so she (and I) can check that nothing unexpected happened and gather the eggs on any given day. If it is uncommonly cold, she (and I) would understand and do more. There is no reason to set it up to be hard to do in the expected weather.

 

[Alaskan]

My neighbor works full time too. I may be soon, too. I hope to have it set up so she (and I) can check that nothing unexpected happened and gather the eggs on any given day. If it is uncommonly cold, she (and I) would understand and do more. There is no reason to set it up to be hard to do in the expected weather.

Then I would first make a glass/plastic box. So 3 walls with maybe a slanted roof, and put it in the run where it gets the most sun. Put the water pan in there.

 

[saysfaa]

This project is reaching the top of my priority list.

I spent too many hours playing with this website
https://theengineeringmindset.com/specific-heat-capacity-of-materials/

Only to find that nothing is better than water as a heat sink. I was trying to find something that didn't change volume as much as water/ice that is also reasonably available with high enough heat capacity and density that would work in the needed temperature range. I will just have to allow for the expansion. Ten percent is enough.

In trying to decide how much insulation to use, I found this https://discover.hubpages.com/living/cooler-insulation

All news to me:
R value degrades in a short time and to a different percentage for different materisls
R value is dependent on temperature range, also different curves for different materials
R value is dependent on temperature difference across the gradient because of how it affects the dew point (different insulation materials handle the dew point/moisture differently.

So, I need a way to compare insulation different than just the listed R value. I found this https://www.wbdg.org/guides-specifi...time-freezing-fluid-insulated-pipe-calculator

That calculator also gives a reasonable way to gauge how much insulation to use for given sizes of water containers at given temperatures to get minimum/maximum time to freeze. As a way to compare how much difference each element makes - since the calculator is for a closed pipe and I will have an opening big enough to allow the chickens to drink; unless I change to nipple watering.

Most obvious is there isn't much difference between the insulation options.

Doubling the thickness of the insulation doubles the time frame needed.

Doubling the diameter of the pipe has progressively more effect at smaller diameters - 1" to 2" triples the time needed; 6" to 12" doubles it... as a very rough rule of thumb type calculation.

Each ten degree (F) increase in the difference between start temperature and end temperature results in about an 8 hour difference in the timeframe (at 4" of insulation and 4@ diameter pipe)(and with neither temp near the freezing point of water.)

I'm thinking of using wood scraps to build a box to insulate. This way, I can size it to fit the water containers I want to use and to reach the hours/temperatures I want. An added bonus is not losing the use of my buckets.

I took some of the box idea from someone who used a cooler in this way. Judd Ripley here https://permies.com/t/35430/chicken-water-freezing-electricity. He said the minimum size hole his chickens would put their heads through to drink was 3". He had two water containers in the cooler. One was a closed jug as a heat sink; the other emptied onto the floor of the cooler as the chickens drank - a variation of a standard vacuum poultry waterer.

I'm out of time for this for now.

Input welcome (except that it would be a lot easier to buy a heater and run an extension cord to the coop. That is already covered in this thread and there are hundreds of other threads already covering that.)

 

[Alaskan]

Then I would first make a glass/plastic box. So 3 walls with maybe a slanted roof, and put it in the run where it gets the most sun. Put the water pan in there.

Would this not work where you are at?

 

[JustCallMeMaple]

I have rubber bowls and carry empty milk cartons of warm water up. It's already frozen over a few days here and I go up anyway why not take warm water with me. It's thawed out since but it's the weather it will eventually be snow and ice soon. Just be careful if you do warm water it's a gentle warm not hot.. I wrist tested the water and went for just above cold. Plan on doing it all winter. Granted my winter won't be as cold as yours possibly but I do live on the side of a steep hill so it's a steep climb up to their run/coop area. I personally don't mind the trek and go up often to make sure everyone is alright, give scraps anyway.

 

[saysfaa]

Would this not work where you are at?

We get thick low clouds almost continuously from late October until mid January. Quite a lot of clouds other times of the year also but not as continuously. I'm hoping to get this going before we leave for Christmas to make things easier for the neighbor taking care of them.

I also don't have a typical run. I have 80 sq ft inside a shed with an open south side for fresh air and light for 5 pullets. A glass box would take up most of their sunning space and still be at least partially shaded by the east wall or the west wall much of the time.

 

[saysfaa]

They will get to play in the walkway of the garden side, once I get it a little further done. They are getting a sneak peak today, as they have a few times.

 

[saysfaa]

I have rubber bowls and carry empty milk cartons of warm water up..., I personally don't mind the trek and go up often to make sure everyone is alright, give scraps anyway.

I like checking on the chickens often, too. I want to not have to depend on that.

I bought two black rubber bowls to use like that and to set in the sunniest corner (when there is sun). It is too soon to tell how well they will work.