Winter waterer without electricity no freezing

[frostypenn]

Winter here is typically has weeks of teens and twenties with dips down to negative teens. Fahrenheit. I don't have electricity in the coop (hardwired or extension cord.)

Best options I've seen so far:
My favorite concept, composting manure:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/alternate-method-to-prevent-water-freezing.73180/

Another version of composting manure:
https://www.hawk-hill.com/diy-bucket-heater/

Insulation:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/diy-insulated-water-pail.1071957/

I found a double-walled, completely sealed ice bucket (for wine, I think), at a resale shop a few days ago. I've been using it for my five hens and like the size. I'm thinking of using that as the inner bucket, a bigger pail or muck bucket as the outer bucket, and filling between them with composting manure.

My most available choices of manure are chicken, horse, or cow. Lol, or whitetail deer, I suppose. I might be able to get rabbit. Does anyone know which would be best for this?

The hottest manure is from meat-eaters, including chickens. I know geese, rabbits, derr, etc, who are strict vegans, have very mild manure - you can put it right on the garden. Horse poop can be hot. I've seen it start a fire.

 

[saysfaa]

Starting a fire? Wow! Maybe tha composting is more of an option than I thought; I'll come back to it.

My current waterer is a 3 quart, vacuum sealed ice bucket, 7" outside diameter, 6" inside diameter, 7" outside height. It is set on cement blocks to raise it 8" above the floor. That puts the bottom of the bucket a little below the top of the bedding.

Alternative waterer is black rubber dish very roughly the same diameter and shorter. It should work the same in the following with a few tweaks; I'll work through those tweaks later.

If I replace the cement blocks with a water reservoir and surround both with insulation...

Uline plastic pail options are 1, 2, 3.5, 5, 6, and 7 gallons

1 gallon is 7.65" outside diameter at the top, 7.04" inside diameter at the top, 6.20" OD at the bottom, and 7.59" tall without a lid. Too small.

2 gallon is 10" at the top, 8.36" at the bottom, 9.25" tall without a lid.

The rest are 11-12" diameter at the top, 10.42" at the bottom - big enough to nest the ice bucket inside with some insulation around it.

3.5 gallon is 11" high w/o lid
5 gallon is 14.5" high w/o lid
6 gallon is 16.75" high w/o lid
7 gallon is 19.62" high w/o lid

6 gallon looks promising - nesting the ice bucket (or rubber dish) so the rims are about even leaves about 10" for a water reservoir of about 3 gallons (more for the rubber dish) And will get the top of the waterer to about what it is now... which works well.

If I sacrifice two 6 gallon pails from other purposes, I can switch the pails instead of containers inside a bucket... possibly easier, certainly the most capacity. This option would need something to rest the ice bucket on. Also, it would need insulation between the sides of ice bucket and sides of the pails. Also, it would need insulation around the outside of the pail at least below the level of the ice bucket.

To rest the ice bucket on: Pvc legs? That would need something to hold them in place, maybe something to separate the insulation around the ice bucket from the reservoir. A partial lid would help.

So far, it seems promising.

 

[saysfaa]

Well, last night was helpful. It was about 24 F (-4 C) last time I checked the chickens last night. They had a little ice in their bucket, I left it to see what would happen. The temp dropped quickly as a cold front moved in, then stabilized in the upper teens - drifting from 17 F (-11.5 C) down to 15 F (-9,5 C) for a couple of hours and slowly back up to about 17 F so far. The bucket has an inch of ice on top, a half inch on the bottom and a quarter on the sides. I expected it to be frozen solid.

I will try to get at least a trial set up ready for tonight.

 

[Meyer_Hatchery]

I'm testing out these anti-freeze horizontal nipples. I took a 55-gallon drum, drilled 4 holes and installed these nipples. So far they are working great without any heat and it's down to 19 degrees F this morning. The volume of water and the drum being black helps to get solar gain and thermal mass to keep the water from freezing. But if and when it gets cold for a long period, I can add a stock tank heater to the drum to keep it above freezing.

 

[aart]

I'm testing out these anti-freeze horizontal nipples.

@Meyer_Hatchery Fewer metal parts inside?
Is the spring plastic?

 

[saysfaa]

... So far they are working great without any heat and it's down to 19 degrees F this morning. The volume of water and the drum being black helps to get solar gain and thermal mass to keep the water from freezing...

That volume will work for you if the temperature averages above freezing. Then it will work against you.

Do you have a way to circulate the water? Logically, if you put the nipples into the sides of the drum, you need more than to just keep the drum from freezing solid. You need the water against the sides of the barrel to stay unfrozen.

I've seen some nonelectric water pumps that might circulate enough water but they don't look very easy to figure out how to match to conditions or to built with reliability.

 

[DonyaQuick]

I am also going without electricity for this winter, which is my first winter with chickens. I have no outdoor outlets on my house and probably won't get one installed until spring next year.

I ran into the composting thing by accident a couple weeks ago. I have a 1/2 gallon black rubber pan about 6" deep that was freezing really fast when it was in the low 20sF, but it was sitting on the frozen ground of my daytime run extension. When it had direct sun it stayed thawed well, but it's been overcast a lot and then it gets a thin layer of ice in an hour. I don't let the chickens in the run extension if I'm gone and I had to leave one day for the whole morning and early afternoon, so I put the pan in the smaller secure area where it doesn't even get direct sun, but it is sitting on and surrounded by deep litter and therefore basically in a composting substrate. I got home that day thinking I would have thirsty birds who'd been without water for several hours and...it wasn't frozen. Seems that little pan will actually stay thawed the entire day there as long as the winds aren't too extreme and the temperatures are above 20F. I'm not even really putting it that far into the deep litter; only 1-2" and even that makes a notable difference. One downside I've seen is that my chickens manage to throw the litter in the water...so I have still been occasionally changing the water once during the day even when it's not frozen just because it looks gross.

I have wondered about sinking the tub further into the composting material, but I worry that if there isn't a sizable lip above ground then a chicken might step or fall in and get soaked.

 

[saysfaa]

Not sure why Hawaii is looking at this, the tops of some of their mountains get cold but not still seems odd. But it seems good info.

https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/hawaiirain/Library/papers/powerpoint files 2007 conference/Kinkade.pdf
– Tanks: Larger tanks are recommended as a large tank will take longer to freeze than a small one; a round tank is recommended as a round tank will lose heat more slowly than a rectangular one of the same volume; straight sides are recommended as corrugated sides have more surface area; insulation is recommended e.g., spray-on polyurethane foam;...

...using suitable piping materials will reduce the probability of pipes splitting; Medium Density Polyethylene (MDPE) remains ductile even at lower temperatures (health implications of drinking water filtration requirements is unknown and water quality should be evaluated with all piping materials), and the typical warm-weather PVC pipe is more brittle at lower temperatures; if the system is not used during cold periods,
...
– Insulation of square/rectangular cisterns should use boards of extruded polystyrene due to their moisture resistant properties. Cylindrical cisterns should be insulated with batt insulation and a Visqueen (polyethylene) outer layer.
...

 

[saysfaa]

It is getting just a little easier to determine the actual short term goal. Our plans are to be gone for seven days starting about ten days from now. My neighbor is willing to take care of the chickens but would much prefer coming once a day after work. I think two gallons is a reasonable amount to carry out to them.

It is still too many days away for very reliable weather forecast but it is getting close enough for a little help. Currently, the estimate is highs of just below freezing and lows of low 20s or high teens F (-5 to -8 C, very roughly).

 

[saysfaa]

Moving to plan B for the trip. I don't think it be reliable without at least more testing than I can do given the warmer weather now. Among other things, I can't be sure the neighbor will get the heat sink water hot enough, it may need more water than she would want to carry, and others that don't matter because those two are enough.

I'll still work on this for later.