Quote:
you crack me up! It might work!
Working with the HOA to change no-chicken ordinance
- Thread starter OmAnNom
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #12
Quote:
Sonoran, I can absolutely see your point about things having been mishandled. They truly were. But there is a better way to go about correcting issues than how it's being done.
1. There is no management company.
2. I am unsure of state laws and am having issues finding the state's information re: hoas, but the covenants state there is to be a meeting every year. The one and only meeting was in December when the HOA was handed over, and the developer said several times during that "meeting" that it was not a "meeting."
3. It does not say in the covenants
4. I can acquire their emails
5. Can you direct me to a place to look up state laws regarding hoas? I'm spending lots of time searching and not finding answers.
6. No one knew the "meeting" in Decmber was being held to elect the HOA board and officials. No one knew the developer was handing it ivermectin and washing his hands of it. There were less than 20 homeowners out of 100+ that were there. The people that threw their name in the hat had no one to run against, so we had no options, but we were "made" to vote by the developer even though most of us protested and wanted to be given the chance to look things over and come up some more people and with a ballot for voting.
7. I have no idea
8 North Carolina
Here is our covenants http://libertychasehomes.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/Libchase_covenants_part_1.67101055.pdf
I sincerely appreciate your assistance. I'm not anti HOA. We really do want to do this the right way and work with the HOA, not against it.
Sonoran, I can absolutely see your point about things having been mishandled. They truly were. But there is a better way to go about correcting issues than how it's being done.
1. There is no management company.
2. I am unsure of state laws and am having issues finding the state's information re: hoas, but the covenants state there is to be a meeting every year. The one and only meeting was in December when the HOA was handed over, and the developer said several times during that "meeting" that it was not a "meeting."
3. It does not say in the covenants
4. I can acquire their emails
5. Can you direct me to a place to look up state laws regarding hoas? I'm spending lots of time searching and not finding answers.
6. No one knew the "meeting" in Decmber was being held to elect the HOA board and officials. No one knew the developer was handing it ivermectin and washing his hands of it. There were less than 20 homeowners out of 100+ that were there. The people that threw their name in the hat had no one to run against, so we had no options, but we were "made" to vote by the developer even though most of us protested and wanted to be given the chance to look things over and come up some more people and with a ballot for voting.
7. I have no idea
8 North Carolina
Here is our covenants http://libertychasehomes.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/Libchase_covenants_part_1.67101055.pdf
I sincerely appreciate your assistance. I'm not anti HOA. We really do want to do this the right way and work with the HOA, not against it.
Quote:
Sonoran, I can absolutely see your point about things having been mishandled. They truly were. But there is a better way to go about correcting issues than how it's being done.
1. There is no management company.
2. I am unsure of state laws and am having issues finding the state's information re: hoas, but the covenants state there is to be a meeting every year. The one and only meeting was in December when the HOA was handed over, and the developer said several times during that "meeting" that it was not a "meeting."
3. It does not say in the covenants
4. I can acquire their emails
5. Can you direct me to a place to look up state laws regarding hoas? I'm spending lots of time searching and not finding answers.
6. No one knew the "meeting" in Decmber was being held to elect the HOA board and officials. No one knew the developer was handing it ivermectin and washing his hands of it. There were less than 20 homeowners out of 100+ that were there. The people that threw their name in the hat had no one to run against, so we had no options, but we were "made" to vote by the developer even though most of us protested and wanted to be given the chance to look things over and come up some more people and with a ballot for voting.
7. I have no idea
8 North Carolina
Here is our covenants http://libertychasehomes.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/Libchase_covenants_part_1.67101055.pdf
I sincerely appreciate your assistance. I'm not anti HOA. We really do want to do this the right way and work with the HOA, not against it.
Here is your state law: http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/gascripts/statutes/StatutesTOC.pl?Chapter=0047F
Look like you can force a vote with a petition signed by 10% of the membership.
Looks like the Declarant Control period in your Declaration conflicts with what is dictated & allowed by state law.
I am not sure that your Declaration grants the right for rules and regulations created or approved by the board to say what you can or cannot do on your own lot (section 4.3); it appears to me that rules and regulations pertain to the Common Areas. I do not see anywhere in the declaration that disallows the keeping of poultry.
The bylaws determine board membership: number (must be at least 3 according to your state law), term length, frequency of meeting, etc. Apparently you do not have a right to attend the entirety of all board meetings, according to your state law, but are entitled to attend portions of board meetings at regular intervals, and to speak.
Names and addresses of all board members should have been distributed to all members 30 days after election.
A lot of the answers you need are in your bylaws, and possibly some are in your articles of incorporation.
Sonoran, I can absolutely see your point about things having been mishandled. They truly were. But there is a better way to go about correcting issues than how it's being done.
1. There is no management company.
2. I am unsure of state laws and am having issues finding the state's information re: hoas, but the covenants state there is to be a meeting every year. The one and only meeting was in December when the HOA was handed over, and the developer said several times during that "meeting" that it was not a "meeting."
3. It does not say in the covenants
4. I can acquire their emails
5. Can you direct me to a place to look up state laws regarding hoas? I'm spending lots of time searching and not finding answers.
6. No one knew the "meeting" in Decmber was being held to elect the HOA board and officials. No one knew the developer was handing it ivermectin and washing his hands of it. There were less than 20 homeowners out of 100+ that were there. The people that threw their name in the hat had no one to run against, so we had no options, but we were "made" to vote by the developer even though most of us protested and wanted to be given the chance to look things over and come up some more people and with a ballot for voting.
7. I have no idea
8 North Carolina
Here is our covenants http://libertychasehomes.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/Libchase_covenants_part_1.67101055.pdf
I sincerely appreciate your assistance. I'm not anti HOA. We really do want to do this the right way and work with the HOA, not against it.
Here is your state law: http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/gascripts/statutes/StatutesTOC.pl?Chapter=0047F
Look like you can force a vote with a petition signed by 10% of the membership.
Looks like the Declarant Control period in your Declaration conflicts with what is dictated & allowed by state law.
I am not sure that your Declaration grants the right for rules and regulations created or approved by the board to say what you can or cannot do on your own lot (section 4.3); it appears to me that rules and regulations pertain to the Common Areas. I do not see anywhere in the declaration that disallows the keeping of poultry.
The bylaws determine board membership: number (must be at least 3 according to your state law), term length, frequency of meeting, etc. Apparently you do not have a right to attend the entirety of all board meetings, according to your state law, but are entitled to attend portions of board meetings at regular intervals, and to speak.
Names and addresses of all board members should have been distributed to all members 30 days after election.
A lot of the answers you need are in your bylaws, and possibly some are in your articles of incorporation.
- Thread starter
- #14
Looks like the Declarant Control period in your Declaration conflicts with what is dictated & allowed by state law.
I am not sure that your Declaration grants the right for rules and regulations created or approved by the board to say what you can or cannot do on your own lot (section 4.3); it appears to me that rules and regulations pertain to the Common Areas. I do not see anywhere in the declaration that disallows the keeping of poultry.
I'm sorry. Can you explain what you mean by this? I'm new to all this and my head is spinning a bit. Do you mean that the board alone can not change the section, it has to be a vote? Or do you mean the board can govern nothing but common areas so none of this is any concern for me, I can have chickens and they can't tell me "no"?
I see now that that link I gave you is only half of the covenants. I can not find the link to the other half, but cop pied bellow is Section 9.11 regarding pets:
Animals and Pets. Only common domesticated household pets may be kept on any Lot or in a Dwelling Unit, but in no events for the purpose of breeding or for any commercial purpose whatsoever. No other animals, livestock, reptiles or poultry of any kind shall be kept, raised, bred or maintained on any portion of the Subdivision. Permitted pets shall only be kept subject to and in accordance with such rules and regulations as shall be promulgated from time to time by the Board. The Board shall have the right to forbid or prohibit certain breeds or types of animals. Any pet must not be an unreasonable nuisance or annoyance to other residents on the Subdivision. The Board may adapt rules and regulations concerning animals which are more restrictive than the provisions this Declaration including rules requiring that all animals be kept on a leash when on the Association Property or outside a fenced yard and that animals be restricted to designated areas within the Association Property and that Owners are responsible for cleaning up any mess that a pet created within any Lot or the Association Property. The Board may require any pet to be immediately and permanently removed from the Subdivision due to a violation of this Section. Each Owner who keeps pets or intends to keep a pet agrees to indemnify the Association and Declarant and hold them harmless against any loss or liability of any kind or character whatsoever arising from he or she having an animal in the Subdivision.
I am not sure that your Declaration grants the right for rules and regulations created or approved by the board to say what you can or cannot do on your own lot (section 4.3); it appears to me that rules and regulations pertain to the Common Areas. I do not see anywhere in the declaration that disallows the keeping of poultry.
I'm sorry. Can you explain what you mean by this? I'm new to all this and my head is spinning a bit. Do you mean that the board alone can not change the section, it has to be a vote? Or do you mean the board can govern nothing but common areas so none of this is any concern for me, I can have chickens and they can't tell me "no"?
I see now that that link I gave you is only half of the covenants. I can not find the link to the other half, but cop pied bellow is Section 9.11 regarding pets:
Animals and Pets. Only common domesticated household pets may be kept on any Lot or in a Dwelling Unit, but in no events for the purpose of breeding or for any commercial purpose whatsoever. No other animals, livestock, reptiles or poultry of any kind shall be kept, raised, bred or maintained on any portion of the Subdivision. Permitted pets shall only be kept subject to and in accordance with such rules and regulations as shall be promulgated from time to time by the Board. The Board shall have the right to forbid or prohibit certain breeds or types of animals. Any pet must not be an unreasonable nuisance or annoyance to other residents on the Subdivision. The Board may adapt rules and regulations concerning animals which are more restrictive than the provisions this Declaration including rules requiring that all animals be kept on a leash when on the Association Property or outside a fenced yard and that animals be restricted to designated areas within the Association Property and that Owners are responsible for cleaning up any mess that a pet created within any Lot or the Association Property. The Board may require any pet to be immediately and permanently removed from the Subdivision due to a violation of this Section. Each Owner who keeps pets or intends to keep a pet agrees to indemnify the Association and Declarant and hold them harmless against any loss or liability of any kind or character whatsoever arising from he or she having an animal in the Subdivision.
Quote:
I'm sorry. Can you explain what you mean by this? I'm new to all this and my head is spinning a bit. Do you mean that the board alone can not change the section, it has to be a vote? Or do you mean the board can govern nothing but common areas so none of this is any concern for me, I can have chickens and they can't tell me "no"?
I see now that that link I gave you is only half of the covenants. I can not find the link to the other half, but cop pied bellow is Section 9.11 regarding pets:
Animals and Pets. Only common domesticated household pets may be kept on any Lot or in a Dwelling Unit, but in no events for the purpose of breeding or for any commercial purpose whatsoever. No other animals, livestock, reptiles or poultry of any kind shall be kept, raised, bred or maintained on any portion of the Subdivision. Permitted pets shall only be kept subject to and in accordance with such rules and regulations as shall be promulgated from time to time by the Board. The Board shall have the right to forbid or prohibit certain breeds or types of animals. Any pet must not be an unreasonable nuisance or annoyance to other residents on the Subdivision. The Board may adapt rules and regulations concerning animals which are more restrictive than the provisions this Declaration including rules requiring that all animals be kept on a leash when on the Association Property or outside a fenced yard and that animals be restricted to designated areas within the Association Property and that Owners are responsible for cleaning up any mess that a pet created within any Lot or the Association Property. The Board may require any pet to be immediately and permanently removed from the Subdivision due to a violation of this Section. Each Owner who keeps pets or intends to keep a pet agrees to indemnify the Association and Declarant and hold them harmless against any loss or liability of any kind or character whatsoever arising from he or she having an animal in the Subdivision.
Yes, the section about rules does not seem to give the board authority over rules relating to individual lots. However, the section you just now included is significantly more restrictive, and does give the board the right to restrict animals. "Common domesticated household pets" is very vague. Nearly all pet stores have various rodents, reptiles, fish, amphibians, rabbits, birds and sometimes cats and dogs. Rescue groups are increasingly pressuring pet stores to NOT carry cats or dogs. Backyard chickens are becoming mor and more common and popular, and most with a small backyard flock consider them to be pets. So, what is a commmon domesticated household pet?
I think that this is the section you need to seek to change. You need to address housing and nuisances, and you need to define what is and what is not a nuisance. Let me see if I can come up with some general verbiage...
I'm sorry. Can you explain what you mean by this? I'm new to all this and my head is spinning a bit. Do you mean that the board alone can not change the section, it has to be a vote? Or do you mean the board can govern nothing but common areas so none of this is any concern for me, I can have chickens and they can't tell me "no"?
I see now that that link I gave you is only half of the covenants. I can not find the link to the other half, but cop pied bellow is Section 9.11 regarding pets:
Animals and Pets. Only common domesticated household pets may be kept on any Lot or in a Dwelling Unit, but in no events for the purpose of breeding or for any commercial purpose whatsoever. No other animals, livestock, reptiles or poultry of any kind shall be kept, raised, bred or maintained on any portion of the Subdivision. Permitted pets shall only be kept subject to and in accordance with such rules and regulations as shall be promulgated from time to time by the Board. The Board shall have the right to forbid or prohibit certain breeds or types of animals. Any pet must not be an unreasonable nuisance or annoyance to other residents on the Subdivision. The Board may adapt rules and regulations concerning animals which are more restrictive than the provisions this Declaration including rules requiring that all animals be kept on a leash when on the Association Property or outside a fenced yard and that animals be restricted to designated areas within the Association Property and that Owners are responsible for cleaning up any mess that a pet created within any Lot or the Association Property. The Board may require any pet to be immediately and permanently removed from the Subdivision due to a violation of this Section. Each Owner who keeps pets or intends to keep a pet agrees to indemnify the Association and Declarant and hold them harmless against any loss or liability of any kind or character whatsoever arising from he or she having an animal in the Subdivision.
Yes, the section about rules does not seem to give the board authority over rules relating to individual lots. However, the section you just now included is significantly more restrictive, and does give the board the right to restrict animals. "Common domesticated household pets" is very vague. Nearly all pet stores have various rodents, reptiles, fish, amphibians, rabbits, birds and sometimes cats and dogs. Rescue groups are increasingly pressuring pet stores to NOT carry cats or dogs. Backyard chickens are becoming mor and more common and popular, and most with a small backyard flock consider them to be pets. So, what is a commmon domesticated household pet?
I think that this is the section you need to seek to change. You need to address housing and nuisances, and you need to define what is and what is not a nuisance. Let me see if I can come up with some general verbiage...
- Thread starter
- #16
Today is the big day....meeting at the playground (haha) to vote tonight. After a stressful few weeks dealing with a singular member of the Board spreading rumors and misinforming homeowners about what we're voting on, we are hoping for the best and are so ready to get to settle this dispute & move on. It turns out not all of us actually grow up & I'm exhausted from dealing with this childish mentality - it feels like we've been in some epic battle between good & evil.
I thought we were just going to discus both sides of the argument fairly and let the people make up their minds based on that....
I hate seeing mean people "win" at life by lying. Here's hoping good trumps
I hate seeing mean people "win" at life by lying. Here's hoping good trumps
- Thread starter
- #19
It went well, but is still unresolved....
After my dh made a brief speech, everyone in attendance was supportive and voted in our favor!!! Ummm, apparently board members aren't allowed to vote, so the only person against us didn't even get a say. HA HA
Unfortunately, we are 15 votes shy of that being 75% of the total homeowners needed to pass the change. Because there were several other issues being voted on on the same ballad, the board will continue to attempt to gather absentee votes. What a headache!
It was wonderful to see we have so much support from our community, but we're leaving our fingers crossed until it is all said and done with.
After my dh made a brief speech, everyone in attendance was supportive and voted in our favor!!! Ummm, apparently board members aren't allowed to vote, so the only person against us didn't even get a say. HA HA
It was wonderful to see we have so much support from our community, but we're leaving our fingers crossed until it is all said and done with.
Get on hte phone and start calling neighbors who didn't vote!
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