Worming during a molt

[Chicken Minion]

I'm sorry in advance for what will be such a long post...

I have a 1-year old buff orpington hen who's wasting away and we can't figure out why. I took her to the vet on Tuesday of this week and she's down to 3.5 pounds (from her normal almost-6 pounds). She's basically a skeleton with feathers by now and I feel just awful that nothing I've done seems to be helping. And so guilty for not realizing sooner how bad she's gotten. For a couple of days before I took her in, her crop was big and squishy (way too big for the amount of food she'd (not) eaten), and every time she would open her mouth, it smelled like death, like she's rotting from the inside. Thinking maybe sour crop, I started giving her apple cider vinegar water by applying drops to her beak - by that point she was no longer eating or drinking on her own. I was able to get maybe 10 bites of some scrambled egg into her all weekend. Out of sheer desperation, I started her on Baytril, not sure if she had an infection but thinking at this point I've got nothing to lose. I started the Baytril Friday night and the vinegar water on Saturday. By Monday she did seem to perk up some and was eating slightly more. Tuesday I took her to the vet and her crop was no longer squishy and she didn't smell like death, no fever or signs of infection, nothing abnormal internally that the vet could feel. Vet doesn't know what's wrong with her but suggested maybe she had some crop stasis going on, but it didn't appear to be happening any longer? She gave her some IV fluids and did not do a fecal, but suggested I worm her with some fenbendazole because I'd dealt with tapeworm previously with some of my other chickens. (By the way, after some research, I've decided on albendazole as I already have Valbazen and read it's the best wormer for dealing with possible tapeworm).

I decided not to worm her for another 24 hours, thinking that the fluids she's just received might flush the meds out of her system too quickly. The next morning she seemed to be feeling a little better and wanted to go outside. Then she disappeared for 2 days and I really thought she'd gone off to die somewhere. Couldn't find her anywhere and finally she showed up at the coop on Friday, even more frail than before, not eating or drinking again, and just stands in one spot with her head down and eyes closed. I'm desperate and I can't stand to see her suffer like this, and now I'm feeling like maybe I should have just had her euthanized when I took her in. She deserves a chance if there are any chances to be had, but at what point does it just become cruel to keep trying? I couldn't get her to eat anything I offered, but then today she discovered my cat's canned food and chowed down on that, and I let her eat it because I'm just happy to see her eating anything at this point. It wasn't long after that her breath started smelling like death again. Could this all be crop-related?

But, if this is all due to a tapeworm like the vet is suggesting, wouldn't that mean she's pretty severely infested by now? And if that's the case, I would think I'd see at least a couple of segments in her droppings, and I haven't seen a single one. I know they won't shed with every dropping but I'd think that if an infestation got that bad, I'd see some evidence? I've had her inside for a week now and haven't seen any visible signs, but I'm going to worm her again anyway because I don't know what else to do. I hadn't taken this step before seeing the vet because she's in such poor shape physically, I've been worried that worming her might actually kill her. But again, at this point I've got nothing to lose because I know she's not going to last much longer if I can't figure this out.

I don't know what else to do for her. I have all of my hopes resting in this being a severe worm infestation, but somehow I doubt that's the cause. She's been wormed before and all of my other chickens seem healthy. My main question is... I keep reading not to worm during a molt, and all of my chickens are going through pretty heavy molts right now. Lily isn't really re-growing her feathers, which isn't a surprise considering her physical state. I'm more concerned with keeping her alive and getting her healthy again than I am with any feather re-growth, and I'm not finding many effective options for treating tapeworm. Is there any effective medication for treating tapeworm that won't disrupt her feather re-growth? Or is there anything I can give her or do for her, while treating her with the Valbazen, that might help?

Secondary question, I guess, would be if anybody has any suggestions of what might be causing my sweet girl to waste away? Or something specific I can ask my vet to test for?

One more thing about using the Valbazen... if she does have some crop stasis happening, or sour crop (pretty sure it's not impacted), is that going to affect the Valbazen reaching her gut and whatever places it needs to reach in order to do its job? Her droppings lately are almost entirely liquid so I know that at least liquid is going through, but I'm concerned that the medication will either just sit in her crop and rot, or it will just run right through her and out the other end before it can work.

 

[thepick4uchicks]

I'm sorry in advance for what will be such a long post...

I have a 1-year old buff orpington hen who's wasting away and we can't figure out why. I took her to the vet on Tuesday of this week and she's down to 3.5 pounds (from her normal almost-6 pounds). She's basically a skeleton with feathers by now and I feel just awful that nothing I've done seems to be helping. And so guilty for not realizing sooner how bad she's gotten. For a couple of days before I took her in, her crop was big and squishy (way too big for the amount of food she'd (not) eaten), and every time she would open her mouth, it smelled like death, like she's rotting from the inside. Thinking maybe sour crop, I started giving her apple cider vinegar water by applying drops to her beak - by that point she was no longer eating or drinking on her own. I was able to get maybe 10 bites of some scrambled egg into her all weekend. Out of sheer desperation, I started her on Baytril, not sure if she had an infection but thinking at this point I've got nothing to lose. I started the Baytril Friday night and the vinegar water on Saturday. By Monday she did seem to perk up some and was eating slightly more. Tuesday I took her to the vet and her crop was no longer squishy and she didn't smell like death, no fever or signs of infection, nothing abnormal internally that the vet could feel. Vet doesn't know what's wrong with her but suggested maybe she had some crop stasis going on, but it didn't appear to be happening any longer? She gave her some IV fluids and did not do a fecal, but suggested I worm her with some fenbendazole because I'd dealt with tapeworm previously with some of my other chickens. (By the way, after some research, I've decided on albendazole as I already have Valbazen and read it's the best wormer for dealing with possible tapeworm).

I decided not to worm her for another 24 hours, thinking that the fluids she's just received might flush the meds out of her system too quickly. The next morning she seemed to be feeling a little better and wanted to go outside. Then she disappeared for 2 days and I really thought she'd gone off to die somewhere. Couldn't find her anywhere and finally she showed up at the coop on Friday, even more frail than before, not eating or drinking again, and just stands in one spot with her head down and eyes closed. I'm desperate and I can't stand to see her suffer like this, and now I'm feeling like maybe I should have just had her euthanized when I took her in. She deserves a chance if there are any chances to be had, but at what point does it just become cruel to keep trying? I couldn't get her to eat anything I offered, but then today she discovered my cat's canned food and chowed down on that, and I let her eat it because I'm just happy to see her eating anything at this point. It wasn't long after that her breath started smelling like death again. Could this all be crop-related?

But, if this is all due to a tapeworm like the vet is suggesting, wouldn't that mean she's pretty severely infested by now? And if that's the case, I would think I'd see at least a couple of segments in her droppings, and I haven't seen a single one. I know they won't shed with every dropping but I'd think that if an infestation got that bad, I'd see some evidence? I've had her inside for a week now and haven't seen any visible signs, but I'm going to worm her again anyway because I don't know what else to do. I hadn't taken this step before seeing the vet because she's in such poor shape physically, I've been worried that worming her might actually kill her. But again, at this point I've got nothing to lose because I know she's not going to last much longer if I can't figure this out.

I don't know what else to do for her. I have all of my hopes resting in this being a severe worm infestation, but somehow I doubt that's the cause. She's been wormed before and all of my other chickens seem healthy. My main question is... I keep reading not to worm during a molt, and all of my chickens are going through pretty heavy molts right now. Lily isn't really re-growing her feathers, which isn't a surprise considering her physical state. I'm more concerned with keeping her alive and getting her healthy again than I am with any feather re-growth, and I'm not finding many effective options for treating tapeworm. Is there any effective medication for treating tapeworm that won't disrupt her feather re-growth? Or is there anything I can give her or do for her, while treating her with the Valbazen, that might help?

Secondary question, I guess, would be if anybody has any suggestions of what might be causing my sweet girl to waste away? Or something specific I can ask my vet to test for?

One more thing about using the Valbazen... if she does have some crop stasis happening, or sour crop (pretty sure it's not impacted), is that going to affect the Valbazen reaching her gut and whatever places it needs to reach in order to do its job? Her droppings lately are almost entirely liquid so I know that at least liquid is going through, but I'm concerned that the medication will either just sit in her crop and rot, or it will just run right through her and out the other end before it can work.

Can you see any worms when you open her mouth or in her vent? And does any of your other flock members or of your family pets or your livestock have tapeworms that you know of specifically 100% for sure? Unless you are 100% sure that they do I would not work her. I don’t know where you live but I have polled everyone I run into that has chickens where I live that I can get to talk to me for any length of time at feed stores, the Veterinarian‘s office’s when I am there with my dogs, and TSC, and other places shopping for chicken supplies from people that have chickens and I try to ask as many as I can of sound mind as to whether they routinely work chickens and most do not. I live in Mississippi. I hear a lot about it on hear but not so much from what is available to buy accessibly. So I would not worm her yet. I would see what happens with her and let time do some work. Give her 24 hours or so. You don’t want to euthanize her yourself anyway. If that is what is going to have to come to pass anyway then just let nature take care of things. If she is just pooping out clear liquid then her system cannot take anything else to try and knock anything else out of her. If you worm her you could kill her. You are better off putting some probiotics into her drinking water and giving her some time. There is always time to worm her later if she comes around and has some gut and good bacteria left to tolerate things later after all this fight is over with. Good luck to you and your little feathered friend.

 

[Chicken Minion]

Can you see any worms when you open her mouth or in her vent? And does any of your other flock members or of your family pets or your livestock have tapeworms that you know of specifically 100% for sure? Unless you are 100% sure that they do I would not work her. I don’t know where you live but I have polled everyone I run into that has chickens where I live that I can get to talk to me for any length of time at feed stores, the Veterinarian‘s office’s when I am there with my dogs, and TSC, and other places shopping for chicken supplies from people that have chickens and I try to ask as many as I can of sound mind as to whether they routinely work chickens and most do not. I live in Mississippi. I hear a lot about it on hear but not so much from what is available to buy accessibly. So I would not worm her yet. I would see what happens with her and let time do some work. Give her 24 hours or so. You don’t want to euthanize her yourself anyway. If that is what is going to have to come to pass anyway then just let nature take care of things. If she is just pooping out clear liquid then her system cannot take anything else to try and knock anything else out of her. If you worm her you could kill her. You are better off putting some probiotics into her drinking water and giving her some time. There is always time to worm her later if she comes around and has some gut and good bacteria left to tolerate things later after all this fight is over with. Good luck to you and your little feathered friend.

I have not seen any worms in or around her vent (but the feathers around her vent do get pretty messy lately), nor in her mouth but I can't get a very good look in her mouth or throat. Could gapeworm be causing this?

I have been battling definite tapeworm in my chickens off and on for the last year. I've never seen any in Lily but when they're all out running around the property, it's hard to know who's dropping what. I've been keeping a close eye on her droppings since keeping her inside. It's difficult because my chickens free-range on my property during the days, and my neighbor's chickens (and ducks, dogs, rabbits, goats) also free range and often come over here. She doesn't take care of her animals and I'm willing to bet she's never wormed any of them or treated any of them for any sort of parasite. I've taken in a couple of chickens from her before and they've been covered in lice, scaly leg mites, and tapeworm. So all of my chickens have been treated for internal and external parasites, but as long as her birds keep coming over here and bringing their parasites with them, I'm going to keep battling them.

I'm attaching a picture I took last year, from one of the chickens I got from the neighbor. I showed the pic to a vet tech friend of mine, who showed it to her boss (Lily's vet). Vet said she's never seen such a bad tapeworm infestation in a chicken before. I treated all of my chickens at that point (this was last September) and thought I got rid of them, but then they showed up again a few months later. Treated again in I believe it was around April? I've read that tapeworm can be very difficult to get rid of so I'm not sure if I've never completely eradicated them or if my neighbor's chickens just keep bringing them back over here. I've just sort of resigned myself to the fact that as long as I live on this property, parasites are going to be a fact of chicken life.

And no, I would not be euthanizing her myself. It would be a cheaper option, for sure, but my chickens are more pets than anything else and I don't think I have it in me to do the job myself. If it needs to be done, I'll be taking her back to the vet for a quick and peaceful journey.

 

[dawg53]

Use Equimax equine horse paste to treat for tapeworms, it's more effective in treating tapeworms than Valbazen.

Tapeworms require a host in order to infect chickens. In others words, a chicken eats a tapeworm infected insect, then the chicken becomes infected. Free range birds are more susceptible to tapeworm infections than penned birds. Controlling insect populations cuts down on tapeworm infections. But that's what chickens do, eat insects. Keep in mind that all insects arnt tapeworm infected.

You would see segments in feces if your BO had tapeworms, as in the photo you provided. She definitely doesnt have gapeworms. At this point in time in her weakened state, I would not worm her. Stop giving her apple cider vinegar, it's not going to do anything. Give her Poultry Nutri Drench orally, 1 drop twice a day for no more than 5 days. Also give her plain boiled white rice mixed with buttermilk to eat for a couple of days. Dont give her yogurt.
After all this, and if she continues to deteriorate, I recommend that you send her off for necropsy to find out exactly what she has. Wasting away in birds can present itself in other serious diseases, such as; Marek's disease, Lymphoid Leukosis, or Avian Tuberculosis.

 

[LaFleche]

Depending on the wormer you could deworm even during molt.

In your case I would only use Flubendazole 5% to deworm a chicken in her bad overall condition as Flubendazole5% will not cause all the worms to die off immediately and at the same time, which with other de-wormers can cause a possible intoxication due to the toxines emitted by the dying parasites.

Double dosage Flubendazole5% (1,2 g per 1 kg feed) for 7 consecutive days feeding only the medicated food will also kill any tapeworms. Even severe overdosing has proven to do no harm.

https://www.vetpharm.uzh.ch/wir/00003143/0156_05.htm?Submit=done

https://www.drugs.com/international/flubendazole.html

 

[dawg53]

Albendazole works in the same manner. It slowly kills worms over several days preventing toxic dead worm overload.
Flubendazole isnt available in the U.S.
However it is sold as a fish wormer:
https://www.amazon.com/Plymouth-Dis...hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583726549116320&psc=1
In @Chicken Minion instance, I still do not recommend worming.

 

[Chicken Minion]

I wanted to pop on here and thank everybody who gave advice on how to help Lily. Unfortunately, she died last week. I went out to check on her in the afternoon and found her lying on her side on the coop floor, unable to move. I took her back to the vet to have her euthanized, but she passed in the parking lot while we were waiting to get in. It was not a peaceful death, but at least it was fairly quick.

I wanted to give a piece of advice for anybody who might read this, regarding sending your chickens off for necropsy. Keep in mind that I'm from a pretty small town in a remote part of Washington, so my options are more limited than what some of you may find. My advice is to get prepared with the necessary supplies ahead of time, keeping them on hand "just in case".

Lily's vet advised that they could do a partial necropsy there at the clinic, but that sending her off to a lab will get much more thorough results and cost a whole lot less. ($40 at the lab she told me about, plus the cost of overnight shipping and shipping supplies.) This particular vet clinic (the only one in my area that will treat chickens) does not send bodies off - she advised that I do that myself. She printed out instructions and a phone number to reach the lab. The clinic was closing as I left, so I had to wait until the next day to ship Lily off.

However, when I called the lab the next day to find out how to go about paying for the necropsy, she told me to make sure I ship her in a styrofoam cooler with ice packs. I didn't have any styrofoam coolers, and neither did either of the shipping stores that deliver overnight. The bodies must be received at the lab within 5 days of death, but must be shipped overnight because the ice packs won't keep the body cool enough any longer than that. This was Thursday, and I was working a very busy day with training and meetings, so I wasn't able to go running around town trying to find a shipping cooler. I could have likely found one after work, but by then I wouldn't have been able to ship her until Friday, and nobody would be at the lab to receive her until Tuesday (tomorrow).

So, I'm pretty upset that I wasn't able to get a necropsy done. My other chickens all seem healthy and happy, but I really wanted to know the cause so I could pay attention to any early warning signs that may come up in my flock. My advice on this is to get a cheap styrofoam cooler and ice pack, and just keep them on hand in case you ever find yourself in a similar situation. And before you send a body off overnight, make sure the lab will have somebody there to accept it the next day.

When I told my vet tech friend about what happened, she suggested I come by the clinic and pick up a couple of their shipping coolers. She said most vet clinics receive their medications in styrofoam coolers and they just end up going to the dump, and said I could have as many as I want for free. Bonus for me, and also keeps them out of the landfill (at least for now). So it would be good to ask your local vet if they have any of these styro shipping containers they'd be willing to give you. The ice packs are also reusable/refreezable, so they'd probably be glad to give you a few of those as well.

 

[LaFleche]

I am sorry that your Lily did not make it.

 

[Ann With A Plan]

I wanted to pop on here and thank everybody who gave advice on how to help Lily. Unfortunately, she died last week. I went out to check on her in the afternoon and found her lying on her side on the coop floor, unable to move. I took her back to the vet to have her euthanized, but she passed in the parking lot while we were waiting to get in. It was not a peaceful death, but at least it was fairly quick.

I wanted to give a piece of advice for anybody who might read this, regarding sending your chickens off for necropsy. Keep in mind that I'm from a pretty small town in a remote part of Washington, so my options are more limited than what some of you may find. My advice is to get prepared with the necessary supplies ahead of time, keeping them on hand "just in case".

Lily's vet advised that they could do a partial necropsy there at the clinic, but that sending her off to a lab will get much more thorough results and cost a whole lot less. ($40 at the lab she told me about, plus the cost of overnight shipping and shipping supplies.) This particular vet clinic (the only one in my area that will treat chickens) does not send bodies off - she advised that I do that myself. She printed out instructions and a phone number to reach the lab. The clinic was closing as I left, so I had to wait until the next day to ship Lily off.

However, when I called the lab the next day to find out how to go about paying for the necropsy, she told me to make sure I ship her in a styrofoam cooler with ice packs. I didn't have any styrofoam coolers, and neither did either of the shipping stores that deliver overnight. The bodies must be received at the lab within 5 days of death, but must be shipped overnight because the ice packs won't keep the body cool enough any longer than that. This was Thursday, and I was working a very busy day with training and meetings, so I wasn't able to go running around town trying to find a shipping cooler. I could have likely found one after work, but by then I wouldn't have been able to ship her until Friday, and nobody would be at the lab to receive her until Tuesday (tomorrow).

So, I'm pretty upset that I wasn't able to get a necropsy done. My other chickens all seem healthy and happy, but I really wanted to know the cause so I could pay attention to any early warning signs that may come up in my flock. My advice on this is to get a cheap styrofoam cooler and ice pack, and just keep them on hand in case you ever find yourself in a similar situation. And before you send a body off overnight, make sure the lab will have somebody there to accept it the next day.

When I told my vet tech friend about what happened, she suggested I come by the clinic and pick up a couple of their shipping coolers. She said most vet clinics receive their medications in styrofoam coolers and they just end up going to the dump, and said I could have as many as I want for free. Bonus for me, and also keeps them out of the landfill (at least for now). So it would be good to ask your local vet if they have any of these styro shipping containers they'd be willing to give you. The ice packs are also reusable/refreezable, so they'd probably be glad to give you a few of those as well.

So sorry to hear that. I used to pick up those little coolers when a local place would throw them out.