Worms! Worms! Worm! Help

[Chictaw]

Raillietina
a genus of cyclophyllidean tapeworms containing a very large number of species, many of them uncommon.
In the family Davaineidae.

​

Raillietina cesticillus
common in domestic poultry.

Raillietina echinobothrida
a common finding in the small intestine of chickens and turkeys.
Raillietina georgiensis
found in domestic and wild turkeys.
Raillietina magninumida
found in guinea fowl.
Raillietina ransomi
found in domestic and wild turkey.
Raillietina tetragona
found in the posterior small intestine of many birds including domestic fowls.
Raillietina williamsi
found in wild turkey.

Saunders Comprehensive Veterinary Dictionary, 3 ed. © 2007 Elsevier, Inc. All rights reserved

There be all ye more common tapeworms ... may they all die miserably ~;-)
Ants are an intermediate host of R. tetragona, and R. echinobothrida.

One thought: If all the ants are gone, then there is no longer any intermediate host.

The small chicken tapeworm, Davainea proglottina, occurs in the small intestine, and particularly favors the duodenum (the horseshoe-shaped part of the small intestine immediately behind the gizzard) as the site of its activities. It is one of the smallest species infesting poultry and can be seen only by careful examination. Mature worms are about one-sixth inch long and consist usually of two to five segments, although there may be as many as nine.

Poultry kept in damp areas are most likely to harbor the small chicken tapeworm, which is understandable enough, as its intermediate hosts are several kinds of snails and slugs.

The small chicken tapeworm occasionally occurs in turkeys, which also play host to another species of the same genus, Davainea meleagridis. Neither has been reported as doing any harm to turkeys.

The nodular tapeworm, Raillietina echinobothrida, is one of the largest of poultry tapeworms. It may become several inches long. It is distributed widely through the country, but it is less common than some other species. Ants are its intermediate host. The adult tapeworms infest chickens, turkeys, and occasionally pigeons, and produce bumps, or nodules, in the lower third of the small intestine wherever they attach themselves to the intestinal wall. The nodules are like the nodules caused by tuberculosis and may fool the poultryman into thinking his flock has that disease.

Ants also are the intermediate hosts of the related Raillietina tetragona, a parasite of chickens, turkeys, guinea fowl, and peafowl.

The broad-headed tapeworm, Raillietina cesticillus, is common in chickens, turkeys, and guinea fowl. Its name describes it. It generally locates itself in the front and middle parts of the small intestine of its host. Two dozen or more species of beetles may be its intermediate hosts. Among them are the common meal-beetles that infest poultry feeds.
Thanks for all the great information. My husband saw something different in their poop today. It was a mass that looked like snot or slime. We are going to watch them close for the next few days, to see if we see anymore worms. To maintan them after we get rid of them, how long do we go before we give them medication again.

 

[WestVermont]

I was told to use ACV in the water and DE over food to solve this issue in my flock.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

I was told to use ACV in the water and DE over food to solve this issue in my flock.

Using ACV at the rate of four teaspoons to the gallon :: edit :: (but never in galvanized metal containers) :: /edit :: is a great idea for birds, as it does many good things, and absolutely no harm. And, including 2% diatomaceous earth in their food is also a great way to help reduce the loads of internal parasites. However, these two measures alone will not guarantee your birds remain free of internal parasites, nor will they eliminate enough of 'em to correct any infestation.

There are other "all natural" alternatives to treating worms, but not all things natural are safe ... in fact, many natural things can most quickly prove fatal, or do tremendous harm internally (most certainly not ACV or DE, provided they're properly used ~'-)

I've found fenbendazole (for everything but tapeworms) or albendazole (for all, including tapeworms) to both be exceptionally well-proven for their safety and their effectiveness, if properly dosed above certain minimums, and for three consecutive days. Additional measures are often req'd, so as to prevent reinfestation.

 

[canesisters]

Slightly de-railing, but I've got a couple of questions.

People keep posting about using apple cider vinegar in the chickens's water - but I've read on some threads that it's all but useless unless it's got 'mother' in it. No one (that I've seen yet) has posted a picture of this 'mother' but she's apparently pretty hard to find. It's been described as some sort of film on the surface or as a cloudy look to the vinegar or even as nasty looking bits of stuff floating in it. I've scoured my local grocery stores & department stores and haven't found anything that lists 'mother' on the label anywhere. So which is it? Is the widely available ACV useful or not? Do I have to find a specialty store somewhere to get this 'mother' stuff?

Also, I was under the impression that DE works by scratching up the surface of the 'bugs' and causing them to dehydrate and die. So does it work inside the bird??

I'm just keep seeing information that seems to contradict.

 

[Conchis]

Hiya canesisters, vinegar with mother in it still contains the acetobacter that turns things like hard apple cider into apple cider vinegar. The stuff that you usually find at the grocery stores has been then pasteurized and filtered to kill and remove the bacteria involved. You want these live bacteria (at least in your chicken waterer, and I want it for myself) in the vinegar you buy. They call it mother, because you can buy one bottle of unpasteurized, unfiltered vinegar at your local health food store, or even online and then innoculate half gallon jugs of HARD apple juice and let it sit for a few weeks and it makes the other juice into apple cider vinegar. The mother of vinegar converts the alcohol in the HARD apple cider into acetic acid. I just buy more because I have enough on my plate. Try your health food store.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Slightly de-railing, but I've got a couple of questions.

People keep posting about using apple cider vinegar in the chickens's water - but I've read on some threads that it's all but useless unless it's got 'mother' in it. No one (that I've seen yet) has posted a picture of this 'mother' but she's apparently pretty hard to find. It's been described as some sort of film on the surface or as a cloudy look to the vinegar or even as nasty looking bits of stuff floating in it. I've scoured my local grocery stores & department stores and haven't found anything that lists 'mother' on the label anywhere. So which is it? Is the widely available ACV useful or not? Do I have to find a specialty store somewhere to get this 'mother' stuff?

Also, I was under the impression that DE works by scratching up the surface of the 'bugs' and causing them to dehydrate and die. So does it work inside the bird??

I'm just keep seeing information that seems to contradict.

For certain, I have seen research which proves DE has some impact on worms, as does ACV, but nothing that shows either to be independently effective at eliminating them.

Although the Acetic Acid Bacteria (AAB) that 'the mother' contains may prove to have some additional benefit that has yet to be proven or shown? It's the adjustment of the pH to around 5.6 and the tannin that apple cider vinegar contains that compels me to suggest it's use.

Not sayin' folks *shouldn't* use it ... just that, for the purposes I suggest, they don't have to.

Mother of Vinegar is also called Mycoderma aceti (a New Latin expression, from the Greek μὑκης (fungus) plus δἐρμα (skin), and the Latin aceti (of the acid). It is a substance composed of a form of cellulose and acetic acid bacteria that develops on fermenting alcoholic liquids, which turns alcohol into acetic acid with the help of oxygen from the air.

​

As you will probably soon see, there's some folks that get offended when anybody suggest usin' the cheapest ACV you can get your hand on ... but, again? They both work exactly the same, for the specific purposes I've suggested.

Here's a post about the usefulness/effectiveness of ACV in which, indeed, I go far deeper than most ever would wanna go:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/727246/my-black-australorp-is-sneezing/10#post_10023677

 

[canesisters]

Thanks yall. I'm glad to hear that the regular ACV is still providing some benefit (other than keeping their water from getting green).
I raised my chicks with ACV (just the grocery store brand). A couple of months ago I ran out and didn't get any more. A couple of weeks ago I noticed that 4 of my 5 had developed 'nasty, icky chicken butt' (diarrhea of some sort). I immediately started them back on the ACV, trimmed away all the fluffy feathers that were clumped with goo, and gave them a 'treat' of yogurt, oatmeal and crushed acidophales tablets for a week or so. Everyone seems to be fine now.
... was it the lack of ACV (mother or not) or was it something I had given them out of the fridge that I shouldn't have??? "
The world may never know"

(sorry to hi-jack the thread.. carry on!)

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Thanks for all the great information. My husband saw something different in their poop today. It was a mass that looked like snot or slime. We are going to watch them close for the next few days, to see if we see anymore worms. To maintan them after we get rid of them, how long do we go before we give them medication again.

With the albendazole, I think I'd dose 'em for three consecutive days (or, just two more, even though you've skipped a day), and at a rate of at least 20 mg/kg. The study established 25 mg/kg for three consecutive days as 100% effective (but, it jumped directly from 12.5 to 25).

What looks like snot/slime could be mucus, or infection, or where they've sluffed of some of the internal lining, or just part of their cecal poop. A good way to check their droppings would be to scoop it up (so you don't have to kneel in it) and spray it gently w/ water from any old (but cleaned) spray bottle.

tgooberbutt started another thread about worms, which y'all might wanna see ...
deworming experience from start to finish
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/732910/deworming-experience-from-start-to-finish

Otherwise, I'd wait a while ... you've already reduced the load, and I'd give 'em enough time to recover from this last round. Ten days is what most folks suggest between treatments.

 

[Chictaw]

With the albendazole, I think I'd dose 'em for three consecutive days (or, just two more, even though you've skipped a day), and at a rate of at least 20 mg/kg. The study established 25 mg/kg for three consecutive days as 100% effective (but, it jumped directly from 12.5 to 25).

What looks like snot/slime could be mucus, or infection, or where they've sluffed of some of the internal lining, or just part of their cecal poop. A good way to check their droppings would be to scoop it up (so you don't have to kneel in it) and spray it gently w/ water from any old (but cleaned) spray bottle.

tgooberbutt started another thread about worms, which y'all might wanna see ...
deworming experience from start to finish
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/732910/deworming-experience-from-start-to-finish

Otherwise, I'd wait a while ... you've already reduced the load, and I'd give 'em enough time to recover from this last round. Ten days is what most folks suggest between treatments.

Thanks again for all your help! Think will let them rest for a while. If this round don't get them we will try again in ten days. Their poop is like water, don't want to hurt them. Oh by the way we are giving them ACV in their water and DE in their coop and on the ground in their run. Have not been giving them the ACV since all this dosing, but will start again. Let you know in a while how we are doing. Thanks again!

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Thanks again for all your help! Think will let them rest for a while. If this round don't get them we will try again in ten days. Their poop is like water, don't want to hurt them. Oh by the way we are giving them ACV in their water and DE in their coop and on the ground in their run. Have not been giving them the ACV since all this dosing, but will start again. Let you know in a while how we are doing. Thanks again!

I know how things like this can be ... once we find the enemy, we wanna kill 'em all. And, if we can't? We wanna kill 'em all, all the more. But, you're absolutely right to wait ...

I'd wait even longer.

I'd get a supplement, and good quality, fresh, non-recalled, feed. And, let 'em regain full health.

And, while they do? I'd focus all that frustration and desire to kill on the intermediate host ... exchange ant for worms, as you begin to chant, "All ants must die!" As you've learned? Gettin' worms out is much easier than keepin' eggs/larva from gettin' in.

You might even come up w/ a way you could redirect your flock to another contained area, or raise them on wire during treatment, so you can later slash 'n burn (after recovering all materials, of course ~'-)