Wry neck treatment not working

[bhawk-23]

Hello,
I have an EE (4.25 yrs) who presented with wry neck symptoms Saturday evening. She laid an egg that morning and was out free ranging all afternoon/evening with the flock.

Went out to tuck them in and she was on the poop board edge roosting and not on the roosts. I lifted her up and saw the wry neck and balance issues.

I brought her in (Saturday night) and gave B complex with vitamin E, mash and scrambled egg. She ate well.

Fast forward to Monday and she had declined despite 3 doses of vitamin B complex and vitamin E. Dr checked her out and it is neurological but she is of good weight/body mass, legs and neck bones seem good and she is still eating so we bring her home to continue treatment upping her to twice daily vitamin mix.

She is not improving. If it is a vitamin deficiency causing her neurological issue how long can it take to recover? Should I add anything else in for treatment?

Our flock is MD and MG positive but I have to agree with the dr that this is not presenting as a typical Marek’s decline. There is also the possibility of a tumor pressing on nerves with her age.

I’ve learned to not have hope but…..thoughts? Anything to add? If I don’t figure it out quick the mareks will take over.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I don't know if upping the dose if going to be effective, but you can try.
A lot depends on the cause of the symptom (Wry Neck is a symptom). Marek's disease is a cause of the symptom, so it may be a Marek's flare for her, but hard to know. Other causes are head/neck trauma and sometimes vitamin/nutritional deficiency.

Vitamin Therapy is the supportive treatment to see if the bird improves regardless of the cause. It can take weeks to see if there's improvement.

Since your vet is involved, did he consider giving a steroid to see if that may help. I sure wish I'd saved the article from a now defunct website. It was for Silkies, who are notoriously prone to have Wry Neck. Anyway, the protocol was for vitamins, but IF you had a vet (and they were willing), giving a steroid *might* be helpful - just depending on what was causing the issue. Run the idea by your vet and see what they think.

In the meantime, hang in there. Keep her eating/drinking and get the vitamins into her.

 

[bhawk-23]

I don't know if upping the dose if going to be effective, but you can try.
A lot depends on the cause of the symptom (Wry Neck is a symptom). Marek's disease is a cause of the symptom, so it may be a Marek's flare for her, but hard to know. Other causes are head/neck trauma and sometimes vitamin/nutritional deficiency.

Vitamin Therapy is the supportive treatment to see if the bird improves regardless of the cause. It can take weeks to see if there's improvement.

Since your vet is involved, did he consider giving a steroid to see if that may help. I sure wish I'd saved the article from a now defunct website. It was for Silkies, who are notoriously prone to have Wry Neck. Anyway, the protocol was for vitamins, but IF you had a vet (and they were willing), giving a steroid *might* be helpful - just depending on what was causing the issue. Run the idea by your vet and see what they think.

In the meantime, hang in there. Keep her eating/drinking and get the vitamins into her.

Thank you. Unfortunately she has declined more overnight.
The vet who was going to euthanize for us agreed it was neurological. We decided to bring her for a necropsy (they prefer alive) and the dr there agreed neurological but since her physical condition was good he said to keep trying for now. Neither one is going to prescribe a med.

I do have prednisone, 10 mg and 5 mg. Do you know how to figure out dosing?What is your thought process on using it? It’s a pretty broad spectrum treatment so I am curious to understand for my own education as well.

If we do end up needing to euthanize, would you suggest another necropsy?are there more illnesses, not yet diagnosed from the last necropsies over a year ago, that could cause these symptoms?

Thank you for sharing your input and time. Just when I think I have a handle on this Mareks it creeps back up just to remind me I don’t

 

[Wyorp Rock]

It would be up to you whether or not to try the medication, I do believe there's risks, so read up and determine if it's something you wish to do.

Personally, I usually cull if they are in this bad of shape, but I do understand wanting to try to see if she will improve.

Marek's seems to be a very complicated disease; it can present in so many ways or weakens the system which allows other conditions/symptoms to appear that don't seem to be connected.


The PDF link for Plumb's Vet Drug Manual (older version) is in THIS POST. You may want to download it; it comes in handy.

Poultry DVM
https://poultrydvm.com/drugs/prednisolone

 

[bhawk-23]

@Wyorp Rock

Yes, my decision is always to cull, hence the euthanasia and necropsy appointments. But with the prodding of the dr (though frustrating) and this one being a special chicken for DS and I am willing to try a few more treatments than I normally would. She does not appear to be in distress or pain and is definitely comforted by holding and petting which has been good for DS saying his goodbye. He is even singing made up songs to her softly

I will definitely download the info, thanks!

 

[bhawk-23]

@Wyorp Rock

I had a thought she may be having seizures. I can say with pretty certainty that she is now.

This would explain why we would see her fits and then she would have periods of being ok and eating.

Unfortunately, they are coming more often and she more tired.
I think it’s safe to assume this is neurological symptoms of mareks?

This just never gets any easier. Breaks my heart each and every time.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

@Wyorp Rock

I had a thought she may be having seizures. I can say with pretty certainty that she is now.

This would explain why we would see her fits and then she would have periods of being ok and eating.

Unfortunately, they are coming more often and she more tired.
I think it’s safe to assume this is neurological symptoms of mareks?

This just never gets any easier. Breaks my heart each and every time.

She may be having seizures.
Search BYC posts by Coach723 using the keyword "seizure". I think she's seen that in a couple of her birds. I do know she has dealt with Marek's in her flock.

I'm so sorry that you are having to deal with this, it must be so terribly heartbreaking. I know you are doing all you can, managing symptoms and offering her supportive care. If she love to be held and comforted by your son, that's wonderful. This must be hard on him, but it's a testament to his compassion to care for and love her, even though she may not make it.

 

[bhawk-23]

@Wyorp Rock

Thank you. He is still angry at the person caring for our chickens and bringing mareks to our flock though. But he is also understanding that as animal caregivers it is our duty to care for them the best we can and that includes not letting them suffer.
Side note: He gave up our vacation this past weekend, with a better attitude than me, because we were not satisfied with the conditions of the boarding facility for the dogs. I was unaware it had changed owners when I made the reservation.

So when she is inside, or at roosting time she is having a ton of seizures. In the morning she is pretty catatonic. Takes a while to get her up and aware.

But outside she is doing better. She seems to be functioning outside foraging with the flock. After roosting time I found her in the corner having more fits. I brought her inside, got her comfortable and I pray she stays comfortable throughout the night. She cannot jump and getting over a 6” board is difficult for her.

What gives? I’ll definitely do a search for @coach723 posts.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

YOu mention she has a lot of seizures when inside or at roosting time. Is she roosting outside or is this inside?

But she's better during the day/outside.

Anything being used inside that could be toxic (teflon), is the room lit with some type of bulb/light that might flicker (we may not see it, chickens see a broader spectrum of light) or does it matter if the light is on or off.
I have a curious mind - don't have answers, but just things that run through this brain.

 

[bhawk-23]

I have a curious mind - don't have answers, but just things that run through this brain.

Me too! I totally get you

Funny how life seems to explode all at once! I’m sorry to be late for the update. But it is a much better one than if I was able to reply a couple days ago lol

She is still getting her b-complex daily and brought inside at night but overall she is improving.

She is still having trouble with different ground heights which could be a depth perception issue. She cannot make it up to the roost. Her neck is still off like wry neck.

She cannot dust bathe yet. She is preening though.

AND she made it to the nest box to lay an egg! The smallest one she’s ever laid, which is weird. lol

I am wondering if she has vertigo. It would make sense why she would have a weird fit anytime I picked her up, set her down, or even moved her. And when she was trying to move herself. The light (or lack of) maybe made the depth perception worse which increased the vertigo sensation. I’m only speculating but that is my best guess at this point.

I am still unsure of what she technically has, why or how she got it, or if it’s the time passing or vitamins helping but I’ll hang on as long as she does.

Has anyone ever heard of a chicken getting vertigo? I would question if it was a MG flare up but no chicken has any symptoms of it. No nasal or eye discharge, sneezing, wheezing or anything that would imply a head or respiratory issue so I decided to wait on any antibiotics at this point.