yellow skin dominance?

[Spazzyyarn]

My daughter is trying to create her own line of chickens. After much research she has run into a problem.

Can someone explain the yellow skin crossed with white and the results? What is the dominant

 

[Kev]

White skin is dominant.

 

[Spazzyyarn]

Thank you!

 

[speckledhen]

White skin is dominant, BUT you won't always get white skin when crossing yellow and white skinned birds. I know this because I made quite a few crosses of Barred Rocks over BBS Ameraucanas. I got both skin colors. Two sisters with the same mother-one had yellow, one had white.

 

[Kev]

White skin is dominant, BUT you won't always get white skin when crossing yellow and white skinned birds. I know this because I made quite a few crosses of Barred Rocks over BBS Ameraucanas. I got both skin colors. Two sisters with the same mother-one had yellow, one had white.

That is because you had at least one Ameraucana carrying the recessive yellow skin gene.

A white skinned bird carrying yellow bred with a yellow skin will throw both white and yellow skins. That is what you are seeing with the sisters out of the same mother above- the yellow skinned daughter proved the mother is a yellow skin carrier.

Just in case this defense comes up(since Ameraucana folk sometimes can be a bit defensive<understandably> about their stock/breed): if a yellow skin carrier is bred with a pure white skin, none of the chicks will show yellow skin. Two yellow skin carriers would only throw 1/4 yellow skins, plus sometimes yellow skin can go unnoticed on a black if the leg has quite a lot of black pigmentation. So a recessive gene like yellow skin can easily float down under the radar for generations. Until certain kind of breeding happens(related mating with concidentally both being carriers, or a carrier is paired with a bird displaying the recessive trait) then it seems to come out of nowhere or seem to "disprove" some things when it's not the case at all.

 

[speckledhen]

That is because you had at least one Ameraucana carrying the recessive yellow skin gene.

A white skinned bird carrying yellow bred with a yellow skin will throw both white and yellow skins. That is what you are seeing with the sisters out of the same mother above- the yellow skinned daughter proved the mother is a yellow skin carrier.

Just in case this defense comes up(since Ameraucana folk sometimes can be a bit defensive<understandably> about their stock/breed): if a yellow skin carrier is bred with a pure white skin, none of the chicks will show yellow skin. Two yellow skin carriers would only throw 1/4 yellow skins, plus sometimes yellow skin can go unnoticed on a black if the leg has quite a lot of black pigmentation. So a recessive gene like yellow skin can easily float down under the radar for generations. Until certain kind of breeding happens(related mating with concidentally both being carriers, or a carrier is paired with a bird displaying the recessive trait) then it seems to come out of nowhere or seem to "disprove" some things when it's not the case at all.

No one is defensive. The way you stated the answer, the person asking would always expect all white-skinned birds when breeding the two, which you may not get. You would have no idea if a slate-legged bird was carrying yellow skin gene if it did not show. Just wanted to clarify that some.

My BBS Ameraucanas came from a very well-known breeder of show stock, Cree Farms out of Washington State, though they are not currently breeding chickens in favor of other livestock. If the blue hen was carrying yellow, I never knew it. She, her parents, and her sisters and brother, and her daughter that I still have, all had proper slate legs with white skin. It was when I bred her with my BR rooster that she produced a white legged daughter and one yellow-legged. If she was carrying yellow, I never saw it, not saying it couldn't have been, just that there was no evidence in the immediate family I saw.

Contrary to what most folks think, things in genetics that "cannot" happen, do happen. Been down that road too many times to count. Genetics are not 100% absolutes. I've seen things folks tell me could not happen, but they did, and numerous times, too. Genes to me are like gremlins, playing tricks on you. They'll throw a curveball when you least expect it, like a spontaneous dwarf from a line that has had no evidence of any dwarfism, period. You just never know.

 

[Kev]

No one is defensive. The way you stated the answer, the person asking would always expect all white-skinned birds when breeding the two, which you may not get.

When answering basic genetic questions the default is to assume the parents are pure for the specific gene being discussed. As in asking about yellow vs white skin the correct answer is that white is dominant over yellow. Simple as that.

So my answer:

No one is defensive.

My BBS Ameraucanas came from a very well-known breeder of show stock, Cree Farms out of Washington State,

This is exactly why I tried to walk on eggshells. Note how the "purity card" and "big name card" were pulled out.

It was when I bred her with my BR rooster that she produced a white legged daughter and one yellow-legged.

I also already covered this with:

A white skinned bird carrying yellow bred with a yellow skin will throw both white and yellow skins. That is what you are seeing with the sisters out of the same mother above- the yellow skinned daughter proved the mother is a yellow skin carrier.

You accidentally did what is called if done on purpose, "test mating". If one wants to test if a particular bird is carrying a hidden recessive gene, like yellow skin... you test by breeding it with a yellow skin bird. IF any of the chicks come up yellow skinned, it is proof the bird being tested IS a yellow skin carrier. The mother hen used in your example is a proven yellow skin carrier.

That also means at least half of her pure Ameraucana offspring are yellow skin carriers. It also proves at least one of her own parents was a carrier, again with at least one of her grandparents and so on. This is exactly what I meant by a recessive gene floating down under the radar for generations, undetected until certain kind of pairings made it possible for the recessive gene to seemingly "pop up out of nowhere".

Contrary to what most folks think, things in genetics that "cannot" happen, do happen. Been down that road too many times to count. Genetics are not 100% absolutes.

I hope to have explained clearly enough but if you still feel this way, this is deliberate ignorance. In fact your own experience proved white skin being dominant over yellow. I do understand the pure coincidence of that mother hen being a yellow skin carrier threw you off, but to use that experience to write "genetics" off as something no one "really understands" is a mistake.

You don't have to believe me, you can personally test it out by breeding that hen's offspring, her parents etc with yellow skinned birds.. then you WILL notice a pattern of how some individuals consistently throw all white skins(not yellow skin carriers) while some consistently throw roughly half white and half yellow skins(proven yellow skin carriers).

 

[speckledhen]

@Kev, the defensiveness is on YOUR part. First thing I did was to say that you were correct in your statement. Too bad you didn't want me to mention exceptions to a rule or a surprise the OP might encounter. That is between the OP and me since I answered her question. No need to jump me.

Never assume anyone asking a question knows about "purity". Most are not high-falutin' breeders but simply folks trying to learn a few things, though I realize this section is, well, hmm, how to put it? Not for neophytes, generally. All too often I see confused folks with results they say some "expert" told them was impossible. Your "big name card", as you so insultingly put it, was mentioned only to say that the Ameraucana used were not backyard EEs. I have no dog in the fight, I no longer breed Ameraucana.

Your lecture to me was entirely uncalled-for, as was your name-calling. I answered the OP's question from my own experience with skin colors, not from some textbook, will not debate you since you apparently deal in absolutes; I know genetics are NOT absolutes. Condescending attitudes turn so many folks off.

 

[Wappoke]

Yellow skin color is due to the ability of the chicken to store xanthophylls (yellow pigments) in the cells found in certain areas of the chickens body(fatty tissues).Birds with white skin do not have the ability to store xanthophyll in their skin, therefore the skin is white. If genetic yellow skin chicks are deprived of xanthophylls, they will develop white skin even though their genotype expression should be yellow skin. Thier are also foods that contain inhibitors that can suppress the expression of yellow skin in birds. My point being that there are environmental factors that can effect genetics on the cell level.

Check the middle of a young male or young female chicken's foot (sole, conversion of the toes) to determine the skin color of a bird. The foot must not have been exposed to things that may stain the sole.


One more thing- chickens are God's experiment in mutations. All the phenotypic expressions we see in chickens today are due to mutations in the ancestral wild type genome. If genes do not work like they have in the past, it is due to environmental factors, disease or a new mutation (at least a locus) or a new combination of genes that is/are epistatic to a gene in question.

 

[Kev]

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@Kev, the defensiveness is on YOUR part. First thing I did was to say that you were correct in your statement. Too bad you didn't want me to mention exceptions to a rule or a surprise the OP might encounter. That is between the OP and me since I answered her question. No need to jump me.

Never assume anyone asking a question knows about "purity". Most are not high-falutin' breeders but simply folks trying to learn a few things, though I realize this section is, well, hmm, how to put it? Not for neophytes, generally. All too often I see confused folks with results they say some "expert" told them was impossible. Your "big name card", as you so insultingly put it, was mentioned only to say that the Ameraucana used were not backyard EEs. I have no dog in the fight, I no longer breed Ameraucana.

Your lecture to me was entirely uncalled-for, as was your name-calling. I answered the OP's question from my own experience with skin colors, not from some textbook, will not debate you since you apparently deal in absolutes; I know genetics are NOT absolutes. Condescending attitudes turn so many folks off.

I was trying to explain how yellow skin can show up in a white skin cross. And then was trying to explain how complicated it can be to answer genetics question. As it happens your responses are an example of this problem.

I did get defensive- tried to stay neutral and super-clear in my responses here but had to stand against your "genetics is mysterious and impervious to understanding" attitude.. it seems to me you essentially are arguing for confusion instead of any possible clarification. You had yellow skin show up, I try to explain it, you get mad and lecture me. Wow.