Zoning Conundrum in Oswego County NY

[HISIRISHGEM]

Hi Everyone!

I need some HELP!!

2012 we purchased our home in a small vilage in Oswego County. Then, I received an okay from zoning who said there was nothing in the books against having poultry of any kind as long as we didn't have roosters.

Fast forward to last month, when we received notice that we were being warned about the size of our flock because of a neighbor complaint. I was SHOCKED! BOTH neighbors okayed in the beginning. We have no roosters and while we have ducks and a 3 turkeys, none of them are unclean, unkept or noisier than several dogs in the neighborhood.

the note attached zoning that was put into place over covid shutdown and demands 25.00 licensure to have chickens with a MAXIMUM amount as 5!

There are loads of chicken owners whom I'm not sure will stick their neck out for me, even though it's likely to help them.

Ag law states we MUST purchase AT LEAST 6.

Now that's not all... I was told that I also needed to let the zoning inspector come onto our property (about half an acre of fenced in property with woods in the back) to inspect our chicken coops and runs.

It was to my knowledge that Ag Law also says no Ag buildings need to be inspected unless there are trusses, which we do not have.

When I called him last month, I left a message to suggest we should be grandfathered in.

Today I received a call stating their "new" lawyer states there is NO grandfathering in and that the new law is the new law. They cannot tell who has had chickens at what point in time.

I need help!

Can anyone direct me to Ag laws helping me in my county of Oswego? I could also use pro's to having chickens. I.e., for us, it's gotten rid of ticks completely. The ducks get rid of the pests the chickens don't within our garden. Our turkeys ...gosh, I love them more than the girls and that's hard to believe.


Another thing I found odd...No culling! UMM the SAME neighbor that turned us in for too many chickens (is there really such a thing?!) They hang their deer in the back. They've shot woodchucks and rabbits. But I'm not allowed to cull for actual food?? I have't had to cull a chicken yet. I've even thought of sourcing out one of our turkeys for thanksgiving.

Any lawyers you know of that could help us? They set me up to go before the village board on July 5th. slightly over a week to prepare. I could lose all my flocks. We have a small kids house with two ducks. The original house with 14 hens that we converted shed into hen house with a pretty awesome run. We had it since 2012. We just put a new REAL house beside the duck house for the 8 new chicks and 3 turkeys. We plan to put a run there as well. Keep in mind we have half an acre fenced and a bit more in the woods not fenced. All my runs so far were built to quote my husband, "Like Fort Knocks".

We could really use some help. My husband was laid off over a year ago with no unemployment. We are a small family in the suburbs of an old farm town they are now trying to zone commercially it seems.

We have raised bed gardens in the front and a nice kitchen garden in the back. We mind our own business, We don't turn our neighbors in, and when I moved in, I actually started the neighborhood Christmas gifting. When I was told it was the neighbors we considered our friends, who didn't even tell us they had issues with us, not only was I caught by surprise, but I was angry and utterly devastated! They have been chatting with us, making us think it was the other neighbor and even took the dozen eggs we gave to them recently. NOT EVEN A, "hey, we have an issue, lets figure this out". I got down on my knees and asked God for forgiveness for even THINKING the other neighbor would do such a thing. They were innocent of any wrongdoing. They don't even know whats going on.

So sad. Thank you for listening. If you can help me by giving me advice on what to say and how to defend myself at the town board meeting, We would sure appreciate it. Right now, we are trying to make ends meet. Our garden and eggs are our source of food. ALL the flocks have brought joy in the middle of our adversity.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

if you are active on Facebook, its likely you have pictures and discussions of your flock in your page history which predate passing of the ordinance, which you can use to show the esistence of the flock for purposes of grandfathering.

I'm NOT a lawyer, and am unfamiliar with the "Ag law" to which you refer. If its the NY "Right to Farm" Act, its for commercial farming operations, and serves as a bar against claims sounding in Nuisance, it provides virtually NO protection for the typical backyard owner.

 

[Chicken Heel]

Why anyone would choose to live in NY these days escapes me but good luck with your battle.

 

[HISIRISHGEM]

if you are active on Facebook, its likely you have pictures and discussions of your flock in your page history which predate passing of the ordinance, which you can use to show the esistence of the flock for purposes of grandfathering.

I'm NOT a lawyer, and am unfamiliar with the "Ag law" to which you refer. If its the NY "Right to Farm" Act, its for commercial farming operations, and serves as a bar against claims sounding in Nuisance, it provides virtually NO protection for the typical backyard owner.

Thank you. I’m off FB but my husbands on. I’ll check for pics.

 

[HISIRISHGEM]

Why anyone would choose to live in NY these days escapes me but good luck with your battle.

Because we grew up here. We can’t win this battle. People from outside our state tell us not to come dirty their state even though we have the same ideology. So wouldn’t that be our obligation to fight to fix it, rather than “dirtying” other people’s states?! My great grandfather rode a war horse into battle, my grandfather took a bullet to the helmet and lived to tell about it during WWII and my grandmother worked in a factory making plane parts for the boys. All three of them dedicated their lives to serving their country and their state.

Also, homes in every state worth moving to right now are AT LEAST 20% above the price they are worth. Not only would we be getting rid of an 850.00 a month mortgage with low interest, but we’d be paying MORE with a higher interest rate. Do we want to move? Yes! I’ve been ready for several years. But we don’t have the money, nor the resources after my husband lost his job.

Thank you for the good luck, but I wish your comment had an actual solid option to save my birds other than to move out. I get it. I know. God hasn’t opened that door yet. Instead, we’ve become pillars of truth around the state where we are being spiritually, physically and financially persecuted. Our lives have become a testimony to standing up against the tyrrany, which I guess extends physically in my backyard.

 

[Chicken Heel]

Because we grew up here. We can’t win this battle. People from outside our state tell us not to come dirty their state even though we have the same ideology. So wouldn’t that be our obligation to fight to fix it, rather than “dirtying” other people’s states?! My great grandfather rode a war horse into battle, my grandfather took a bullet to the helmet and lived to tell about it during WWII and my grandmother worked in a factory making plane parts for the boys. All three of them dedicated their lives to serving their country and their state.

Also, homes in every state worth moving to right now are AT LEAST 20% above the price they are worth. Not only would we be getting rid of an 850.00 a month mortgage with low interest, but we’d be paying MORE with a higher interest rate. Do we want to move? Yes! I’ve been ready for several years. But we don’t have the money, nor the resources after my husband lost his job.

Thank you for the good luck, but I wish your comment had an actual solid option to save my birds other than to move out. I get it. I know. God hasn’t opened that door yet. Instead, we’ve become pillars of truth around the state where we are being spiritually, physically and financially persecuted. Our lives have become a testimony to standing up against the tyrrany, which I guess extends physically in my backyard.

I understand your dilemma and feel sad for your current situation with your birds. And I also have great respect for your grandparents patriotic contributions having had my father and six uncles fight in WWII. Please do continue the fight and accept my apology for my comment.

 

[Karianne]

I'm really sorry you are having this issue. Do you live within city limits or a nearby town within the county? Usually every township has their own ordinances.

The best thing you can do is look up all the ordinances for every township in your county (and surrounding counties / cities that are similar), and make a list of every one that has more lenient rules, so you can use this to demonstrate a kind of precedence. If these are all quite restrictive, then you might have to just go state wide or country wide, and use examples to show how most similar areas do allow a small amount of livestock. If you can find sources that demonstrate how this is good for an area like yours, increasing food independence for the local area, increase the farming presence and historical nature of the area etc.

Ag laws won't apply to you unless you own a lot of acreage. The Ag dept will be unlikely to help you. Best thing to do is remain very calm, not argumentative or emotional, but firm in your convictions, and present this information to your township board meeting. Agree to inspections, but know the rules first so that you can have everything complying during their inspection. Get involved in the board, and have as many family and friends and fellow livestock owners also get involved to show support for the values you want in your area.

Secondly, yes you could appeal to grandfather in your existing flock based on the time you bought your home and the rules at the time. However, this really isn't set in stone. I would lodge a formal "application of non-conforming use" (grandfathering) at the same time as your appeal. You may also want to set a period of time that is reasonable for this to be amortized. For example, 10 years to recoup the costs and outlay you have in your chicken coops, new flock purchases and other areas where you can demonstrate a significant financial and time investment that will otherwise be lost because of this new rule. Be really organized and prepare, and if you can afford it really do get legal advice before making any big decisions. Most honest lawyers will give you a free phone consult to discuss if this is their area of expertise, whether you have a chance of winning, and also will give you names of other lawyers who specialize in this area of law in your local area. Good luck!

 

[Idaho Chicken Bungalow]

I think ordinances in regard to raising poultry all over this country should be looked at differently. There is something to be said for food security. If these pets provide that for your family, then by all means you should be left alone. Think to the neighbors behind you. This is where I had problems with my dog years ago.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I'm really sorry you are having this issue. Do you live within city limits or a nearby town within the county? Usually every township has their own ordinances.

The best thing you can do is look up all the ordinances for every township in your county (and surrounding counties / cities that are similar), and make a list of every one that has more lenient rules, so you can use this to demonstrate a kind of precedence. If these are all quite restrictive, then you might have to just go state wide or country wide, and use examples to show how most similar areas do allow a small amount of livestock. If you can find sources that demonstrate how this is good for an area like yours, increasing food independence for the local area, increase the farming presence and historical nature of the area etc.

Ag laws won't apply to you unless you own a lot of acreage. The Ag dept will be unlikely to help you. Best thing to do is remain very calm, not argumentative or emotional, but firm in your convictions, and present this information to your township board meeting. Agree to inspections, but know the rules first so that you can have everything complying during their inspection. Get involved in the board, and have as many family and friends and fellow livestock owners also get involved to show support for the values you want in your area.

Secondly, yes you could appeal to grandfather in your existing flock based on the time you bought your home and the rules at the time. However, this really isn't set in stone. I would lodge a formal "application of non-conforming use" (grandfathering) at the same time as your appeal. You may also want to set a period of time that is reasonable for this to be amortized. For example, 10 years to recoup the costs and outlay you have in your chicken coops, new flock purchases and other areas where you can demonstrate a significant financial and time investment that will otherwise be lost because of this new rule. Be really organized and prepare, and if you can afford it really do get legal advice before making any big decisions. Most honest lawyers will give you a free phone consult to discuss if this is their area of expertise, whether you have a chance of winning, and also will give you names of other lawyers who specialize in this area of law in your local area. Good luck!

Minor correction. Local Ordinances of Municipalities not your own have no Precedential power, at best, they are instructive authority when seeking a change in ordinance. i.e. The next town over has an Ordinance like I propose, and they have not had the problems with it that you suggest, during the 15 years its been in effect. Or Nearbyville tried that, and were promptly tied up in litigation, ultimately they revised their ordinance to say this instead...

But Nearbyville, Nexttownover, and Sisterton can't create binding authority over Yourtown, anymore than Wisconsin can create precedent in New York.

 

[Karianne]

Minor correction. Local Ordinances of Municipalities not your own have no Precedential power, at best, they are instructive authority when seeking a change in ordinance. i.e. The next town over has an Ordinance like I propose, and they have not had the problems with it that you suggest, during the 15 years its been in effect. Or Nearbyville tried that, and were promptly tied up in litigation, ultimately they revised their ordinance to say this instead...

You are correct, this is basically what I was trying to say. No direct power, just influence to change the minds of the people in the board. I don't know about this particular board, but mine is very small and practically just a popularity contest in terms of influence in the community. Very difficult if the board is focused on cultivating a certain type of community and you are a lone voice in opposition though!