Arkansas Blue egg layers

[Metella]

My gut reaction is to prefer option 2 and feeling it is still very true to the breed.

Wonder what others would say ? I want to have a flock that is considered true and good AB birds .... I have that now - but just with small and rather round eggs...... the blue novelty wears off on customers when they are baking and can't use the pretty blue eggs for their cakes and such.

Would anyone here be uncomfortable with me doing this and called a good result in F2 or F3 a pure AB ???

 

[Manningjw]

My gut reaction is to prefer option 2 and feeling it is still very true to the breed.

Wonder what others would say ? I want to have a flock that is considered true and good AB birds .... I have that now - but just with small and rather round eggs...... the blue novelty wears off on customers when they are baking and can't use the pretty blue eggs for their cakes and such.

Would anyone here be uncomfortable with me doing this and called a good result in F2 or F3 a pure AB ???

My guess is the reaction would be it isn't considered 'pure' but in my opinion, the AB genetic pool has enough variation in it to already not be considered 'pure' stock though I bet some people have been able to select down to a more consistent breeding population. Again, this is just from what I have read and has been demonstrated here as I have no first hand experience breeding them yet.

For me production of medium to large blue eggs is a must. I also want a bird that is BBS coloring with minimal to no red leakage on blue and black cockerels(haven't seen this yet and will take work to get there), morphology fairly consistent generation to generation and they MUST be homozygous for pea comb and blue egg gene after selection.

The initial description of the birds is what I often reference for the AB:
Quote: It seems like crossing back to commercial leghorn then by the F2 generation you likely will be very close to what the original was.

 

[Metella]

That's what I was thinking - find a very good leghorn of the right genetic make up to keep the phyenotype, egg color and pea comb .... Crossed in just once should improve the egg size

And weren't they started to be a commercial egg layer ? so egg size is pretty important to commercial sales ....

 

[Manningjw]

That's what I was thinking - find a very good leghorn of the right genetic make up to keep the phyenotype, egg color and pea comb .... Crossed in just once should improve the egg size

And weren't they started to be a commercial egg layer ? so egg size is pretty important to commercial sales ....

I think the stated goal was a blue egg layer that lays like a battery hen?

The right leghorn will be a commercial white strain bred for production which is what was used to create the original AB stock. It isn't known which commercial line he used but they are very similar from hatchery to hatchery.

 

[1muttsfan]

Actually laying stock Leghorns are carefully bred from stock that is developed by each chick supplier. Since white can hide a variety of colors, you could get a lot of unexpected genes in the mix. The AB's are a breed, not a hybrid, so outcrossing without generations of careful culling will not produce AB's. Certainly you could call them hybrids. None of the AB's I have had lay anything smaller than a large egg.

Outcrossing would also tend to dilute the blue egg color. These birds were developed by a poultry geneticist to have specific genetics, and outcrossing will certainly have an impact on that.

 

[Metella]

Well - that's why I'm asking

I want a ton of input - but all my eggs are very small and I have pure AB's .... so ? is it just an odd older hen and that the pullets are very young ? Or do others with AB's have small and round egg types?


The one thing I wanted was a definate blue color - so that is something I don't want to dilute.

 

[1muttsfan]

Your pullets are likely still quite young, and egg size should improve with time.

I have nothing against outcrosses - my ABxCL's are nice birds, and it was so nice to eliminate the roosters before I fed them for weeks and had time to get attached to them. I find both the AB's and the crosses very feed efficient compared to the larger, dual-purpose birds I previously mostly kept.

I do wish they were not quite such cuckoobirds, but I still have my Speckled Sussex and Delaware hens for companionship.

 

[Manningjw]

Actually laying stock Leghorns are carefully bred from stock that is developed by each chick supplier. Since white can hide a variety of colors, you could get a lot of unexpected genes in the mix. The AB's are a breed, not a hybrid, so outcrossing without generations of careful culling will not produce AB's. Certainly you could call them hybrids. None of the AB's I have had lay anything smaller than a large egg.

Outcrossing would also tend to dilute the blue egg color. These birds were developed by a poultry geneticist to have specific genetics, and outcrossing will certainly have an impact on that.

You are right they are very carefully selected (often hybrids themselves) for productivity by each breeder, much like "red sex links" have different formulas from each breeding program.

There definitely are hidden colors under the white, most commonly in my experience is Barring(used to prevent any black expression) in the two different sources of commercial Leghorn stock and of course black. I have also ran into an issue with red/brown leakage in cockerels, nearly identical in appearance to that of the U of A blue cockerels I have seen so far posted and in my own U of A cockerel. Not desirable for me, it still needs to be bred out.

That's great that you have larger egg layers! The first shipment I received was what I would call medium sized, smaller and lighter in color than most of the birds I currently have. The second shipment was slightly larger eggs, similar shade and fortunately for me packaged very well(Thanks Ron!).

Fortunately for us, the blue egg gene is relatively simple (a single dominant gene) compared to brown eggs which is determined by many many genes.

 

[Manningjw]

I do wish they were not quite such cuckoobirds, but I still have my Speckled Sussex and Delaware hens for companionship.

I hear you there! My little rooster is very skittish I imagine that comes from primarily being White Leghorn bloodlines!

I have had my commercial leghorns for 3 years so they eventually got used to me, I am hopeful he will too. It is nice to have different breeds for that reason, my favorite bird will fly over the fence to land on my arm for pets. I always joke that she earned chicken retirement whenever that day comes. She lays an egg that is nearly identical to the U of A blue eggs in terms of shape and color I have received but she is is heterzygous for blue egg/pea comb gene.

 

[ronott1]

You are right they are very carefully selected (often hybrids themselves) for productivity by each breeder, much like "red sex links" have different formulas from each breeding program.

There definitely are hidden colors under the white, most commonly in my experience is Barring(used to prevent any black expression) in the two different sources of commercial Leghorn stock and of course black. I have also ran into an issue with red/brown leakage in cockerels, nearly identical in appearance to that of the U of A blue cockerels I have seen so far posted and in my own U of A cockerel. Not desirable for me, it still needs to be bred out.

That's great that you have larger egg layers! The first shipment I received was what I would call medium sized, smaller and lighter in color than most of the birds I currently have. The second shipment was slightly larger eggs, similar shade and fortunately for me packaged very well(Thanks Ron!).

Fortunately for us, the blue egg gene is relatively simple (a single dominant gene) compared to brown eggs which is determined by many many genes.

I was going to post that it would be hard to get them back to being a BBS Breed. They really are a breed since they breed true.

The eggs I have had from mine are as big as leghorn eggs already. It would be best to select for ones that lay bigger eggs--It wold be easier than breeding to leghorn.

Did any of those eggs hatch? Your boy looks like a couple that I had.

I need to get on your list for hatching eggs next year--Mine never did recover from moving out to a breeding pen in the country--The person I was working with let the flock die and then had them mixed up with other breeds--not very happy with the way it went...