Blue Copper and Splash Copper Marans Discussion

[snowbird]

I believe it is time for the Blue Copper to have their very on thread for discussion and pictures. Please only Blue Copper only . The thread will be geared mostly to breeding to the APA SOP so keep this in mind when posting for a critique. I feel any picture posted should be up for a critique.

Look forward to seeing some nice Blue Copper fowl pictures posted. Post your questions and I am sure they will be answered.

 

[pinkchick]

To pay tribute to DMRippy's breeding prowess.....here are some eggs that I am currently getting from some of the girls that I hatched out from her eggs. Well done Donna! They are sooooo pretty I cannot stop staring at them. And yes, they are going into the incubator. Thank you for sharing with me Donna! I am so excited to start rebuilding flocks with these girls. Will post a photo of the eggs from the other girls soon. It's official, 3 of them are now laying. . . finally after 11 months. It was worth the wait!

 

[Chooks man]

My handsome guy!!


His lady


Her egg.

hi there you have a nice pair .
the Blue copper rooster is a good much for the black pullet .
his hackle is golden ( should be copper ,) the blue always dilute the copper .
the black hen will correct that because she have a darker hackle ( even just a little ) .

her eggs are gorgeous .

they are going to make you a lot of baby chicks

chooks man

 

[gilavina]

These are all photos of Luella from the time she was about 2 weeks old. Photos that most of you probably have seen at different times.































Luella's first egg. I'm hoping to make some more progress on the color, but for a second generation blue copper, I'm not unhappy with it at all

 

[theoldchick]

Here's my big boy:












He's not physically perfect but his temperament is exceptional.

 

[pinkchick]

Any one have thoughts on this roo. I purchased hatching eggs from a breeder saying he has black coppers, blues, and splash. He said this is his splash rooster. Anyone ever see a splash with this kind of coloring? I don't think his shanks are feathered either, dark but not feathered. All of his other flock pics look like normal splash that I've seen before, mostly white with splashes of blue/gray. I dont currently breed splash so I'm a little unfamiliar with the color variations.

Blue, Black, Splash Marans (aka... BBS), solid birds that do not carry copper genetics and Black Copper, Blue Copper and Splash Copper are 2 different color varieties of Marans, so when speaking of the Blue Copper variety and Splash Copper varieties...then a person would see copper in the Splash that come from copper genetics. Solid BBS Marans should not carry copper and should not show copper as they are suppose to be based on silver. True solid BBS birds are pretty rare and IMHO, alot of "BBS" Marans are Marans that have copper genetics in their background somewhere. It's very easy to assume a melanised BCM or melanised Blue Copper as a solid bird as some melanised birds can appear completely black, blue and splash. SOMEBODY CORRECT ME PLEASE IF I AM MISTAKEN IN WHAT I SAY IN THE PARAGRAPH BELOW....I don't want to give the wrong info. When the 2 varieties are crossed it can create offspring that carry one copy of each gene, 1 gold/red (not sure if gold and red are considered the same here) and 1 silver. The silver can produce birds that can show color in the hackle, wing bow and saddles, lighter than should be, ie... cream/yellow or gold. If the Coppers also carry Mahogany, Mahogany will show as red in the shoulders of the males, but I am uncertain of the effects of Mahogany on silver based birds. Hope others come by to post their opinion and I hope this helps and I didn't confuse anyone or anything or give the wrong info.

 

[pinkchick]

Eye color

Quoted from: http://www.edelras.nl/chickengenetics/mutations2.html#gen_mut_eye



From Dr Okimoto..........

There is a gene for brown eye, but I can't remember to much about it. I'll have to look it up. Eye color is also associated with the E locus alleles (black produces darker eyes) and genes like dominant white will dilute the eye color. I would expect blue and lavendar to do this too.

I had a Blue splash Ameraucana rooster that had bright orange eyes with red streaks in them. I bred him for two generations (the second one back to his daughters) because I like the eye color, but I never got anymore like him. Eye color is pretty much a genetic mystery for chickens.

Smyth in Poultry Breeding and Genetics, 1990 Crawford, ed. Cites a Sex-linked brown eye phenotype (Br). The normal color is called bay. Brown eyed birds are also seen in association with dark shanks and the id^M sex-linked dermal melanin allele. The dominant E allele is associated with brown eye too.

Pearl eye is thought to be recessive to bay eye. I'd think that there were at least two genes involved, but the genetics aren't known. Something inhibits carotinoid deposition and also melanin deposition in these eyes. White skin is known to inhibit carotinoid deposition in the skin, but Smyth claims that it isn't involved in pearl because yellow skinned Cornish can have pearl eyes.

The color I had in my Ameraucana was not the normal bay color it was a bright orange eye with blood red streaks in it. It was pretty striking and could not be confused with the normal bay.

The red color may be carotinoids (the pigment left in fall leaves and can be seen in vegetables like carrots and red peppers).

Quoted from: http://sellers.kippenjungle.nl/page2.html


Genetics of eye color:

The genetic basis of eye color has not been extensively studied as have other aspects of phenotype. However, some things are accurately known. First of all, the wild-type eye is characterized by the Light Brown Leghorn. Eye color is a result of pigmentation of a number of structures within the eye (iris, retina, uveal tract, ciliary).

The bay-color eye (various shades of reddish brown) is due to carotenoid pigments and the blood supply of the iris. Brown eyes are increasingly melanized with the darkest eye color due to the fibromelanotic gene characterized by heavy eumelanin deposits throughout the eye. Little is known about pearl eye and Smyth has speculated that it has the same eumelanin distribution as the bay but without the carotenoids.

Eye color is modified by a number of genes that are known to be associated with shank and plumage color. The sex-linked dermal melanin genes, id+ and idM enhance dermal shank and eye pigmentation. The inhibitor of shank dermal melanin, Id, also inhibits eye pigmentation. Smyth hypothesized that the idM gene together with extended black, E, is responsible for dark brown eyes. idM also darkens the eye on the e+ background.

A dominant sex-linked inhibitor of eye pigmentation is known, Br. This trait is not useful for developing sexable day-old chicks because chickens do not get their final eye color until they reach sexual maturity.

In the absence of other melanin inhibitors, the E-locus alleles, E (extended black) and ER, birchen, result in a brownish eye with the E allele making the darker eye. Sex-linked barring, B, and eumelanin inhibitors at the E-locus, like eWh have an effect on eye color. Recessive white seems to have no effect on eye color and dominant white, I, has a strong ability to inhibit eye pigmentation. The genetics of pearl are not known, however, it is known that the white skin gene, W, is not the genetic basis of pearl eye, since Cornish have yellow skin and can also have pearl eye.

 

[gilavina]

Was out spending some time with my oldest chicks from this spring and thought I'd share some progress shots. Sorry for the crap quality photos, but was using my cell phone cause its what I had. These were hatched April 25th. So, just coming up to 4 months in a couple of days. There is definitely still work to be done, but I am happy with the progress and consistency.

 

[kcrandall]

So the Blues should b bred back to a black...

And the splash to a splash?

I'm sorry I'm so ignorant

Atakiowa,

Here is the breeding combinations / results for blacks, blues and splash:

Black x Black = 100% Black
Black x Blue = 50% Black, 50% Blue
Black x Splash = 100% Blue
Blue x Blue = 50% Blue, 25% Black, 25% Splash. (As Chooks Man said, Blues do not breed true - they need the black to keep the deep rich blue coloring. Think of it as the difference between new blue jeans and faded blue jeans).
Blue x Splash = 50% Blue, 50% Splash
Splash x Splash = 100% Splash

Remember that color is just one component in breeding - to breed quality chooks you need to understand the SOP (Standard of Perfection) for the breeds you are raising so that you can match roosters and hens to correct faults in the parent stock. Visit the International Black Copper Marans Thread - lots of good posts on breeding Marans. Marans are a French Breed so we refer to the French SOP on the International thread but if you want to show birds in the US you will need to refer to the US SOP.

Good Luck,
Keith

 

[Chooks man]

Sorry about the bluriness of the one photo. I recently hatched some blue and splash coppers to mix into my black copper flock, and I was searching out pictures of standard colors on the boys. I have 3 blue copper cockerels, one has almost no copper, one has a little, and this one has the most. Is it too much? They are a little over 2 months old now. I only wound up with 1 splash pullet, so I'm keeping her to see how she grows out. I only want to keep one of the blue boys because I already have 2 nice Black copper roos...but I'd like to keep the best one. I'll try to get better pictures later today.

Sorry about the bluriness of the one photo. I recently hatched some blue and splash coppers to mix into my black copper flock, and I was searching out pictures of standard colors on the boys. I have 3 blue copper cockerels, one has almost no copper, one has a little, and this one has the most. Is it too much? They are a little over 2 months old now. I only wound up with 1 splash pullet, so I'm keeping her to see how she grows out. I only want to keep one of the blue boys because I already have 2 nice Black copper roos...but I'd like to keep the best one. I'll try to get better pictures later today.

he is a keeper for sure .
very rare to get a Blue copper cockerel with that type of rich copper .
love his red shoulder .
need a better photos of him

chooks man