BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[3riverschick]

Link to a simple growth curve chart.

http://www.avianaquamiser.com/20110724chickengrowthrates.jpg

Does not take long to figure out when the best time to process them is (speaking of economy), and where you want them at that point. It is not just how big the get ultimately, but also what their fleshing is like towards the top of the curve.

Well this is interesting. I was conversing with another Sussex
breeder a while back. We are discussing growth rates and
how to use them to predict excellence in development when
improving a flocks production values. ( LS= Light Sussex)
Here is what the breeder wrote me:

" In the first years of the LS project I wing banded every
chick and weighed them at 2 week intervals, calculating
means and ranges for males and females from week 6 to
week 16, and again at 20 and 24 weeks. I was crossing
distant lines, and wanted to check for differences in growth
rates within that period of time, and I also wanted to know
at what age the rankings by weight would become stable.
What I found was that the heaviest birds at 6 weeks were
not necessarily in the heaviest group at 8 weeks, but after
8 weeks I had few birds that crossed into the top half of the
flock from the bottom or vice versa. Since then I have not
wing banded to track individual growth rates, as they are
all showing the same growth curve -- no distinctive
plateaus or bumps. I score cockerels for weight at 16 weeks
even tho some will fill out more than others before reaching
maturity -- the slow growers you don't want."

I think that is interesting to compare with the growth
chart above. ( or not as you see fit).
Best,
Karen

 

[gjensen]

Well this is interesting. I was conversing with another Sussex
breeder a while back. We are discussing growth rates and
how to use them to predict excellence in development when
improving a flocks production values. ( LS= Light Sussex)
Here is what the breeder wrote me:

" In the first years of the LS project I wing banded every
chick and weighed them at 2 week intervals, calculating
means and ranges for males and females from week 6 to
week 16, and again at 20 and 24 weeks. I was crossing
distant lines, and wanted to check for differences in growth
rates within that period of time, and I also wanted to know
at what age the rankings by weight would become stable.
What I found was that the heaviest birds at 6 weeks were
not necessarily in the heaviest group at 8 weeks, but after
8 weeks I had few birds that crossed into the top half of the
flock from the bottom or vice versa. Since then I have not
wing banded to track individual growth rates, as they are
all showing the same growth curve -- no distinctive
plateaus or bumps. I score cockerels for weight at 16 weeks
even tho some will fill out more than others before reaching
maturity -- the slow growers you don't want."

I think that is interesting to compare with the growth
chart above. ( or not as you see fit).
Best,
Karen

The general consensus is at 8wks, you have a good idea who will be the heaviest at 12, 14, 16wks etc.

I imagine that we should favor the birds with better growth rates compared to their hatch mates. It seams worth making considerations for breed and breed type etc. On an extreme end, you would not want to push growth rates on Malays.
One of the things that I am thinking of is that by putting pressure on Reds for faster growth rates and early weight gains, they changed the breed into something different entirely. The shorter, broader, New Hampshire.

Before I decided to try my hand at working with a pure breed, I did a lot of playing around. With a couple different hatchery Reds orders, I noticed that the "faster" birds did tend to be broader and shorter. That might have been a clue in the genetic background of the birds, but it was an early lesson in breed type. How breed type was associated with what that bird was good at (or could be). This lesson is one of the things that drew me to the New Hampshire.

I read an article or two on breeding Minorca, and selecting from the fastest maturing birds was discouraged. The idea was that those birds made for smaller lighter birds, that would trend towards a Leghorn type bird. They wanted to maintain the big framed birds that laid the extra large eggs, compared to the smaller Leghorn eggs.

A friend of mine believes that her very fast maturing Delaware, makes for smaller hens. She feels that if her pullets did not come into lay for a few more weeks, she would see larger final sizes in her hens. I have wondered if this could no be accomplished with management, as not to lose the benefit of early maturing cockerels. The Delaware are supposed to be quick, and the breed Standard does not call for an especially large bird. Medium large like a New Hampshire, but a little longer, and not quite as wide. The Standard weights are the same. Not as large or large framed as a slightly slower Plymouth Rock.

The fastest growing large Rocks that I have grown out tended on the clumsy side. They got a little too big, a little too fast, and lacked some athleticism. I am sure that this is not universally true, but I did read sometime later in an article where a couple old time Rock breeders mentioned the same thing. They did not want the fastest maturing, but that does not mean they wanted the slowest either.

I am not making any particular point, other than offering some things to consider. I think we are looking for a good balanced approach that keeps with what we are keeping. If we all selected for precisely the same things, and precisely the same way, we would have precisely the same breed.

I think what the growth curve chart illustrates best is that there is a point where the rate of growth starts dropping off pretty sharply. For a Sussex, you might be looking a little farther down the hill, or the peak to be a little further down the chart for a decent roaster weight. For a New Hampshire or Delaware, it would seam to be keeping with the breed to process fryers more near the top of the curve. If they do not have decent fleshing near this point, then they are not fit for the purpose. Of course you could grow a few out a little longer for a larger carcass, but I have found that often it is a good bit longer. They seam to hit a stage where they start getting leggy and awkward looking, before they start filling out the final frame. For the birds that I have experience with, that means for an older tougher bird.
How they grow out matters. A lot of our pure breeds have a lot of feather early, and look like something, but when you pick them up there is not a lot there. They eventually get where they should be, and in a decent time frame. Just not fleshed out when they should. The put the feather on first. A lot of protein goes into all of that feather. For this reason, I do not like to see birds that should be good dual purpose birds to be excessively feathered. A lot of waste there. A surplus of offal, as you brought up in that article.

 

[Kassaundra]

@hellbender here is an action shot of Rudy, as you can see he has a healthy appetite.

 

[armorfirelady]

Kassaundra what happened to his feathers ?!?!

 

[gjensen]

@hellbender here is an action shot of Rudy, as you can see he has a healthy appetite.

No excessive feathering here, LOL.

 

[Kassaundra]

He has a double hit of a recessive Sc (scaleless) gene, he has no scales, no feather follicles and no feathers.

 

[call ducks]

Emily raises ~700/chicks per year. My cock was #493 (from 2012). From what I have seen working with my Sussex, and the other breeds I have raised over the years is that weight matters in chicks *but* not as much as one might think. And that the later you select for growth ( 14,16,18 weeks etc) the more accurate your growth rates well be. Also as a side note that chart is about production chickens - another beast all together.

 

[hellbender]

@hellbender here is an action shot of Rudy, as you can see he has a healthy appetite.

I hope he doesn't try to fly! Perhaps I'll send him a little parachute!!!

I'll be after him!!1

 

[Kassaundra]

I hope he doesn't try to fly! Perhaps I'll send him a little parachute!!!

I'll be after him!!1

He runs and jumps and when he is airborne, flaps his little arms like he is flying. He also grooms his imaginary feathers, it is so cute to watch.

 

[gjensen]

Emily raises ~700/chicks per year. My cock was #493 (from 2012). From what I have seen working with my Sussex, and the other breeds I have raised over the years is that weight matters in chicks *but* not as much as one might think. And that the later you select for growth ( 14,16,18 weeks etc) the more accurate your growth rates well be. Also as a side note that chart is about production chickens - another beast all together.

Of course it is. It was used to illustrate a point. Apparently you missed the point all together. Especially with your point, because tracking growth rates is not a one shot deal. To track rates is to track it incrementally. It is not a straight line.That was my point. Growth rates are not lineal. It is hard for some to understand that. It is not just what size they eventually get to, but how they get there.

I do not think there is anything more that I can share here.