BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[gjensen]

I realize that sex link hybrids can't be bred true but I was wondering around and came across this thread on ISA Brown's by Fred. Promising.....

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/660815/breeding-sex-links-third-generation

That is what I mean that we have access to genetics that we never did before. Nothing wrong with playing with a project like that. I have.

Most of the value would be on the male side, and sex linked males are a dime a dozen. They are quick growers even if they do not flesh out well.
What I mean by value on the male side, is all you would need is one, and he will contribute the laying genetics to whatever you put him on.

What I did, a good while ago, is took a silver male from a sex linked cross and put him on some single combed "Rhode Island Whites". They already were good layers of 220-240 large rich brown eggs. Their offspring were running around 240-260 extra large rich brown eggs. I did have the pullets on lights through their first winter. They were not good dual purpose birds, but were quick growers and great layers.

This was my first lesson on brassiness and gold leakage. I did not know then that I could use blue, black, or barred to clean it up. I went a couple generations before I realized I was getting no where.

You can also put one of those lighter framed quick growing males on a strain of large or extra large females. He will improve the laying in their offspring, they may very well be quick to mature, and be intermediate between the two sizes.

One thing to consider is that Fred had trouble along the way with genetic longevity issues. I did not with the cross I did, but I put one of the males on different birds. I did not continue within the same strain. These strains are built on putting a lot out fast, and that is all.

And you will never get them to perform as well as the original birds. Not without years of selection.

Another option is using the colored broilers. You stand a better chance of getting a female to live to laying age if you control the diet. I would prefer the black colored broilers and put a barred bird over them. What I would hope for is to produce some clean silvers within a couple generations.

There is all kinds of possibilities and projects, if someone wanted to play with something like that. When you consider al that is out there, genetically, the possibilities are endless. Concerning sex linked males, you can almost get them for free. No one wants them, but they have a lot to contribute.

If all you want is layers or meat birds, you can do whatever you want.

 

[gjensen]

THere is definitely some value to this type of standarized testing. IT is possible to broad en the scope to working free range or penned birds.

WHat I see here are differences between which birds like to cover a lot of territory and which do not. I had a group of BO last summer that continued to hop the fence and became coyote food, leaving the pullets that didn't hop to new territory. I expect this had some selection on the current population. I can't help thinking that groups of birds have different approached to how they use land and that cannot be measured so easily in a standarized test.
In the testing program for the horses one of the rules was that the feature being evaluated had to be measureable. Either literally( objective) or via well trained judges ( subjective)

At one sheep station, rams were brought in by a specific age by farmers for testing. It could be done with chickens as well.

When the USDA sponsored these in the past, there was a lot of incentive to do it. I doubt you could get anyone interested in it today, and where would you do it? I like the idea though. Kind of put your money where your mouth is kind of thing. I would only be interested in seeing it for improving our pure breeds. Then I would want them to rate high enough, so that they represented the breed well. Otherwise you would have production reds competing with Rhode Island Reds. I can go to Tractor Supply and get those.

 

[hellbender]

I'm told the video is ready...27 minutes in duration. It will be handed over to the 'Staff' today for approval. I don't see anything about it that should get anyone too tight-faced...As I said before, less objectionable than damage caused by a cock-bird over-spurring a hen. If you have any comments about it...tell Jason, as he should be signed in soon...by late afternoon 5/16. Don't know what he's waiting for but he will be here. He might be concerned with what I've set him up for...He's far more likable than I and to a certain extent, gives a flip what people think about him...

Speaking of over-spurred hens...I can't be the only person who uses the good ol' DREMEL tool on long spurs. The sets are cheap, light weight and will render an overly 'randy' cock-bird relatively safe around the hens.

RON

 

[armorfirelady]

Looking forward. Forward to seeing the video when I get back from camping Monday

 

[call ducks]

The right two strains would take some trying. They will not all "nick". First you are looking for in the parent strains what you want to find in the offspring. Maybe some compensating traits.

The first chicken of tomorrow contests were won by New Hampshires. The later trials were won by New Hampshire Cornish crosses. Which of course led to specialized Plymouth Rock strains x Cornish.

Today they are not simply Cornish x Rocks as the nick name implies, but this is where the notion comes from. Originally they were simple crosses. The White Plymouth Rock developed for faster meatier growth had an advantage over the New Hampshire from the color of the feathers.

This is where the notion that the New Hampshires should be a lighter color by the New Hampshire bantam breeders. Early meat strains were lighter in color and had a light under color. The Standard New Hampshire is a dual purpose bird and not purely a meat bird.
There was laying strains of New Hampshire also. They were competing quite well in the laying trials, before they figured out it did not make sense to go with the heavier breeds for egg laying alone. These birds were darker in color, and of course had lighter weights.

Eventually the lighter Leghorns, and specialized strains of Rhode Island Reds took over. These Rhode Island Reds were not the Standard Rhode Island Reds.

This is also the time period where there was a split between commercial interests and breed enthusiasts. Purely commercial interests led these strains away from the breed type and character. They developed them into something new all together. We still see that split today. It is discussed on this board all of the time.

I find myself in the middle of the two extremes. I am not interested in purely exhibition poultry. Ornamentals are not my thing, but if I was going to go towards the other extreme, I would develop something new all together. I actually like the idea of it, but have not decided to make a decade long commitment for no real good reason.
What does fascinate me about the idea is that we have access to genetics that we did not have access to in the past. We have access to the best performing birds that the world has ever known.

I guess that I would prefer to try to rebuild a strain of a breed with some history. That holds my interest more. The challenge of breeding birds that are respectable in quality and perform reasonably well. These birds are exceedingly rare.

If the color of the feathers was not a concern, I would like to try the Reese Dark Cornish over New Hampshires. The New Hampshires on the female side for the egg laying ability. It would be easier to get some numbers on the ground.

Depends what section you are looking at... Vantress red Cornish won in the FCR aspect .

Also you can avoid those dark pin feathers if you butcher at the right age. Chicks go through several set's of feathers and by butchering when a set is completely in there well be very,very few to none black spots.

 

[Arielle]

I wouldn't expect to see the USDA sponsor any thing in the way of the non-commercial breeds. . . guess we are on our own.

I have raised up a number of birds since getting into chickens. Most are not doing what I want . . .now that my goals have changed: from hatchery layers to heritage meat and a few eggs.

 

[Turk Raphael]

The first time in years, I called off work last night. I did everyone a favor because I was exhausted and could not think clear. we are going to wait until we get moved to even consider ordering chicks from anyone. We're stuck on Buckeyes but there seems to be plenty of people to get them from.Just a matter of being careful to get them from the right people.

 

[Arielle]

The first time in years, I called off work last night. I did everyone a favor because I was exhausted and could not think clear. we are going to wait until we get moved to even consider ordering chicks from anyone. We're stuck on Buckeyes but there seems to be plenty of people to get them from.Just a matter of being careful to get them from the right people.

IN the end these are just chickens. Maybe this isn't the best time to be scouting for a breeder . . . given all that you have on your plate. However, what I have learned from the long timers is: THe good breeders have waiting lists. I had to wait many months to get my chicks, partly due to a weather delay. If anything I have learned to be patient. IT will all work out . . .

 

[bnjrob]

IN the end these are just chickens. Maybe this isn't the best time to be scouting for a breeder . . . given all that you have on your plate. However, what I have learned from the long timers is: THe good breeders have waiting lists. I had to wait many months to get my chicks, partly due to a weather delay. If anything I have learned to be patient. IT will all work out . . .

Very true and good advice. It took me several years to be able to get the breed we wanted. We found long waiting lists, and not everyone willing to sell to "newbies" - keeping hatchery chickens for eggs as kids didn't count, and then not having people who could ship and we weren't in a position to drive across the country to get chickens. When you are set on a particular breed, you often have to change your plans in order to get them when they are available.

 

[Turk Raphael]

IN the end these are just chickens. Maybe this isn't the best time to be scouting for a breeder . . . given all that you have on your plate. However, what I have learned from the long timers is: THe good breeders have waiting lists. I had to wait many months to get my chicks, partly due to a weather delay. If anything I have learned to be patient. IT will all work out . . .

We have two freshly processed turkeys in our small freezer and the large one is empty. We can't bring ourselves to try eating those chickens sold in markets, especially those awful leg and thighs. We may have to do 'something' in the meantime, even if it's ordering 25 dark cornish cockerels from the hatchery, to get us through any long period of patience.

I like these emoticons or whatever they are called.

Turk