Chantecler Thread!

[unkadan]

And here is the Best of Breed Chantecler at the CFI National Meet for 2013. A cockerel, he was also judged
best large fowl chicken of the show. Bred by Gina Neta, raised and exhibited by Mike Gilbert, both of Wisconsin.

Congrats Mike on a beautifully conditioned bird, I understand Gina also won Reserve of Breed and Variety with another of her cockerels. Both big wins in a group of over 60 White Chants.
I was lucky enough to secure my starting stock from her this spring, hopefully I can make the right selections when breeding this winter.
thanks for posting the pics
Dan B

 

[coopslave]

Here is the pullet judged BV (best of variety) at the recent CFI National Meet in Michigan. Note the darker ground color.
Click on the photo for an enlarged version to see detail better.

Thanks for posting the great pictures Chantecler7. That is the ground colour I am aiming towards, just have a little ways to travel still.
She has what looks to be a very nice comb and I really like her head. She has more 'fluff' than I would like as well, but I think that is a bit of an issue with the Partridge. Not sure I like her tail.....I am getting the same type of tail in some of mine. When you look at the SOP picture the shape and angle is different than this pullet. More angle in the SOP and tail not as full.
This is the SOP picture I happen to have on my computer, but it may not be the most current.


I always note the hackle in the hens in the SOP drawings are slightly different than the somewhat 'generic' written description for Partridge.
I miss the Standard that we had in Australia as each variety had it OWN colour description so little nuances in colour variations were written with the breed (from what I remember from my time there anyways).

Oh, I also meant to say I am impressed with the pencilling in this pullet. Wish I could see her chest.

And the White cockerel is very nice. Although I am not overly familiar with the Whites, I can certainly appreciate the quality of that bird.

 

[Chantecler7]

Here is a full shot of the BV Partridge pullet. I agree she is too fluffy.
She also needs to be longer and stand more upright. Her sister placed third and had better type and tail shape,
but was marked down because she likes to hold her tail slightly to one side. The coop card was
marked "Ltail," which stands for lazy tail. At the same time, don't rely too much on those paintings in the Standard. Most judges will tell you they are not all that accurate. The ABA is working on photographs for their next edition.

 

[coopslave]

Thanks for the full shot. See, to me in this particular photo, she looks to 'wyandotte'. Her back is not flat and there is no distinct break between back and tail. I don't think it is just a matter of her standing taller, but the actual type that she is. Sorry if 'stand taller' is a show term and not a literal term, I am not familiar with it. I often see these ones that look to wyandotty (I have one in my pen right now) and I do not care for them much, but that again is my opinion.
See, I do think the paintings in the Standard are what we should go by, otherwise we end up having birds that are not really there, but are the best on the day. I personally think it is a mistake to use photos, good luck finding a bird that completely meets the Standard in everyway. The 'ultimate' bird is the one that should be pictured and in some breeds or varieties breeders are not there yet. I think the Partridge Chantecler is one of them. I use the paintings as the outline for my perfect bird (I know I will never get there, but you know what I mean), and I think without that outline we loose focus on the breed itself.
If a person sees enough of them that are not quite the right shape and that becomes 'normal' in their eye if they do not have a picture to always go back to. Again this is just all my opinion, not trying to stir, I just enjoy good discussion about the breed I am passionate about. Thanks for humouring me Chantecler7.

 

[Chantecler7]

I believe I indicated that I agreed she is not quite correct. But over the past four years I have annually participated in the largest showing of Chanteclers on the continent, and I have yet to see one of any color that matches the paintings in the Standard. They were done by an artist who had a lot of work to do in a relatively short amount of time. We have no modern-day Schillings. We do have an outstanding photographer in Neil Grassbaugh, and he is the one commissioned with providing photos for the ABA.

 

[coopslave]

I believe I indicated that I agreed she is not quite correct. But over the past four years I have annually participated in the largest showing of Chanteclers on the continent, and I have yet to see one of any color that matches the paintings in the Standard. They were done by an artist who had a lot of work to do in a relatively short amount of time. We have no modern-day Schillings. We do have an outstanding photographer in Neil Grassbaugh, and he is the one commissioned with providing photos for the ABA.

I agree, we do not have a modern day Schillings, but I use his work to help me with my idea of the 'shape' I want my birds to be. What do we get ingrained into us constantly as breeders? Build the barn and then paint it. The bird must have the right shape first and foremost and then the correct colour.
I have only been back in North America for just over 3 years and I do not show, is the ground colour of the Partridge Chantecler more important than the shape when they are judged at show? I am first and foremost a breeder, have never really been a exhibition person. I think it is a sad thing when colour trumps shape and type.
I understand that the Partridge variety of the Chantecler is a tough one. So many things to get right on a bird that has not had much attention paid to in until the last little while.
In the previous country I lived in I had the very good fortune to be mentored by some great old time breeders, some of them exhibited poultry as well. It was ingrained into me that a breed does not exist without type. I will not compromise shape for colour. I think that should be true of an exhibition bird as well. It does not mean I will not keep some birds that have the right colour even if their shape is not ideal, but the right shaped birds are what I covet. You must keep variety in the breeding pen especially with a breed such as this that has so much work to be done on it yet.

I have taken some pictures in my pullet pens to give some example of what I mean. I do not, in any way, say my birds are the be all and end all. I am their worst critic and I will tell you all day what I want to change on each bird, but that is half the fun! But I am looking to get as close as I can to a bird that meets the form and meets the description of the variety as well as the production and vitality it was historically know for. I do eat mine and they make a lovely, tasty carcass.

Here is one of the pullets I believe is close to the shape that a Partridge Chantecler should be. Remember these are pullets, not quite 6 months old yet. Oh and yes I know, her ground colour is TERRIBLE but her type and shape is good.







Ignore her colour and look at her back and tail. No cushion, good length, a tail that comes up off her back but is not to full. She is broad in the back and deep thru the body. Remember this is a ranch bird in a pen, she has not been taught in a cage how to stand. Don't worry, I know she isn't perfect. Still to much fluff for me, better than some I have, but still to much for the breed I think. I wouldn't mind if she was a little bigger as well. She is well grown but I am aiming for a bit thicker shank and stronger frame than this.


Here is another pullet I have in the pen. Her ground colour is better, still not there but better. She is more wyandotty in her shape. If I was breeding for strictly ground colour she is the type I would have in my breeding pens at the moment.




There are many things I like about her otherwise she would not still be here. But I have to say her back and tail are not some of them. (sorry the pictures were taken with the sun coming up and I have a bit of glare in there and the yellow in their shanks has certainly not come up very well) She is even showing a little bit of cushion, yuck!

So maybe I am being a bit pedantic about it, but I guess my point is, it doesn't matter how good the photographer is, if the bird he is taking the picture of isn't quite right, it will still be what is considered the representation of the breed. If it happens to be that pullet that took out BV at a big show, that is what people are going to use as an example of the breed and think of it when walking thru their breeding pens.
Quote:
I certainly have not had the good fortune to do that. I would love to be able to go to shows that big. I do have to say I am saddened if the shape of the above BV pullet is what we are seeing in the largest showings of Chanteclers on the continent. I surely don't want to take anything away from the breeder of that bird, they are a tough breed and I congratulate them for the BV award. But they are choosing that shape in their breeding pens obviously and I would be interested to know why. Again that is just my opinion on it. Really, who am I to say I am just a passionate breeder trying to get it right........

 

[coopslave]

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made an error and tried to delete. Moderator, please delete this and I will repost again later.

 

[Chantecler7]

Most breeders would agree, I think, that the written description takes precedence over any photo, drawing, or artist's painting.
Here is what the APA Standard says about the female Chantecler back and tail.
Back: Long, broad at shoulders, sloping slightly downward to rear, where it curves sharply into tail.
Tail: Medium length; moderately well spread, carried at an angle of 30 degrees above horizontal. (emphasis mine)

Artists and breeders will interpret the wording differently, and to each his own tastes. But I don't see any of the pullets shown above, including the one I posted, where there is a sharp curve from back to tail or a 30 degree angle. Granted, photos don't tell the whole story.
I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on what "moderately well spread" means, and that is okay. But in order to accomplish a 30 degree angle and still have a sharp curve from back to tail, I think we can agree the back needs to slope from front to rear, and the feathering in the cushion area needs to be fairly tight and close . I'm working on that with my own birds, and yes, have chosen to breed the darker birds almost exclusively because I think once you lose that it will be very difficult if not impossible to recover short of an outcross. Having said that, I did pick up one young pullet in Montana this fall that has the back and tail and body length I want, but has that lighter ground color and the concomitant yellow hackles. She will be introduced into my line next season using an extra dark mahogany male that goes about ten pounds.. Chicks will be toe punched at hatch for subsequent identification, so we'll see what happens. A work in progress by all means. Keep up the good work. And why not consider joining CFI? Four newsletters per year, an annual breeders directory, and contact with fellow Chantecler folks. We have quite a few Canadian members, including two of our four Directors.

 

[yodercountrygirl2]

I haven't read all 109 pages so pardon if these questions have already been answered.
Couple questions:
1. Am I too far south for this type of bird. I live in NE missouri.
2. I am thinking of getting some birds to breed, who can I contact?

 

[Chantecler7]

I haven't read all 109 pages so pardon if these questions have already been answered.
Couple questions:
1. Am I too far south for this type of bird. I live in NE missouri.
2. I am thinking of getting some birds to breed, who can I contact?

Chanteclers can do fine in any climate, but were bred specifically to produce in the frozen north. NE Missouri is not that far south.
Perhaps someone on this forum will contact you, but CFI Maintains a Breeders Directory. Are you interested primarily in production or show quality stock - there is a difference in price?
Preferred variety White, Partridge, or Buff? Do you want to start with chicks or adult birds? If the latter, are you willing to pay for shipping - which can be pricey?