Consolidated Kansas

[JosieChick]

I am SOOOO far behind! Yikes! So I am just going to jump back in. Sorry to all I have missed.

I have to disagree with you Sara Joy on the LGD. I believe it is more what they are bred for than anything. You either have a dog with good instinct or you don't. My dogs protect the property and what is on it and it doesn't matter if it is a goat or a chicken. They are keeping what belongs safe and what doesn't out. A firm NO! as a puppy will teach them to leave them alone. I've not lost any birds to a dog and I've had lots and lots of puppies around here.
If you shut them up together as youngsters in a small area, you are going to have problems however, because boredom will take over common sense. Once that dog has reached a certain stage of maturity it will understand what to protect. I believe that exposure to things like chicks is the only way for a dog to learn what is okay and what isn't. I love my older pyr, Molly. She is the BEST! Lucie I think will grow out of some of her naughty behavior with work and proper management but I will never buy a crossbred LGD again. I want another Molly, thus the year long wait on a breeders waiting list for a pup that I think is going to be fabulous for his job.
My older dogs came from goat stock as puppies but I keep my pups trained to chickens, ducks, and such beginning at birth. A LGD will pounce toward a bird from time to time for fun but a good dog will never grab one. Pyrenees are naturally food aggressive so they may chase the chickens from their food bowl, but the chickens learn equally as fast they aren't going to get hurt and come right back. So true! Molly snarls like she is going to kill them but she never "follows through" and a lot of them have learned to call her bluff and sneak around her anyway! I just try to feed her when she can eat in peace and doesn't have marauding poultry or geese trying to steal her chow. We will have to agree to disagree on this matter I guess.
HeChicken you are right. I keep checking and it's insane to let these geese drive me nuts. I ignore my hatcher most of the time until the cheeping inside gets loud. But yes, these are Sebbies and not only do I love them to death but they are very valuable birds. Nothing has happened all day and it really worries me. Thank goodness I have a full view door so I don't have to open it to look in. Hope your hatch goes well! Have they pipped externally or are they just woo wooing inside? I will stick the link on here for Pete's guide to hatching sebastopol eggs. It is really interesting reading and they also talk about when to intervene or determine if intervention is necessary.
My stupid water was frozen today when I went out. That sure makes me work harder. And it snowed really hard while I was out there working too. What the heck. It's supposed to be spring.
I got my first egg from the Red Bourbons since I moved the big boy in with them and the darn thing was frozen!!! Aarg!!!
I really need to build a different shelter for them. They were laying every day in the other pen and little shelter. So one more project to add to the never ending list when it warms up outside.
I've got way too many projects going on to ever say never when it comes to chickens. As soon as I move out some of my birds I am ready to start breeding my own red stars. There's nothing about them that are anything but hatchery birds other than the two roosters I am using for the breeding. They just happened to be special boys but it wouldn't matter in this case. I am breeding walking egg factories and the cockerels will all be separated and sold as meat birds.
I think these discussions open our eyes to things we don't always think about and that is a good thing. I just feel regardless of whatever else I do it is important to do my part in preserving some heritage breeds along the way.
I believe in having two kinds of birds. Those that are there for practical purposes and to make money with and those that are there for the eye candy. Luckily some can server both purposes.

Oh ..Heritage Breeds...I read somewhere That heritage breeds do not lay as well? It depends on the breed but a lot of heritage breeds lay very well just not at the "rate" a hatchery production bird will. For example I purchased 5 hatchery birds (australorp, maran and an EE) 3 years ago. The EE is the only one who still lays on occasion. The four girls laid 6 days a week for 2 years (except molt) and then quit and that was it for them. If you want to sell eggs you would probably want a production bird that cranks out eggs, doesn't eat much feed and you would butcher them at the end of 2 years and have pullets ready to "take their place." Of course I had no idea of this when I bought these girls so now I am attached to them and could never eat them so they are just free loaders out in my laying pen. A heritage bird might lay for many more years just not as many eggs per week.
I guess I need to research the pro's and cons of heritage vs hatchery birds.

I think we all mostly have a mixture of birds from hatcheries & breeders. I have some birds in my laying flock from breeders, but most of them are from hatcheries. Soon all of my breeding stock will be from breeders when I get my Speckled Sussex here & grown. I'm not saying I wouldn't ever buy a heritage bird for laying, the Barred Rocks would probably be the exception to the rest just because I love those birds so much. I hated it that I lost one of them from this illness, that really hurt. Those birds lay huge eggs, even the young one that I got from Eileen that just started laying recently lays really big eggs. I can't wait till my two little blue Barred girls start laying. I'm planning to get some Cream Legbar eggs before too long from a club member in Tulsa, she has really nice birds. Instead of having them shipped I hope to meet her & pick them up, that would be so much better than taking a crap shoot with the postal service. Those eggs are just too expensive to send through the mail, I tried that twice & neither time did it turn out well.

We didn't get any snow here today, it was just numbing cold here. When I went out this morning I came in with my hands just frozen & really hurting. I'm so looking forward to some warmer days later in the week. Me too!!!! I am sick of winter!

Been so stinking busy it isn't even funny anymore. We packed the rest of the house this weekend up in Rantoul and hauled it down. We went up Saturday AM and had two moving guys help us (thank heavens!!!) for four hours and packed most the rest of the stuff up there. We left just as the snow started and got stuck driving in mess for an hour as we headed back down 35 so that was a great time. Ugh. I was so exhausted when we got home. Then we had to unpack it all on Sunday! Phew.

Ran nine million errands yesterday and got home and the horses have learned how to unlatch the gate and were loose! Fortunately they love grain so they followed me back in and I put snaps on the chains on the gate. Stinkers.

Lucie is going in tomorrow AM to have her right leg amputated. The bottom screw on the plate in that leg has broken and both the plate and pin are starting to bend outward. So the implant is going to fail before the leg can heal and the bone development is not very strong on that side anyway. She would need another major surgery and I can't keep her inside for another 4 months while she heals. She will do fine on three legs and at least the left leg is healed and strong so she will have one good leg to support her.

Got my first goose egg from my white curly girl yesterday and it was frozen solid and split. Bummer. Oh well. At least she is laying!

HEchicken, I will send you a text today!

 

[chicken danz]

Thanks everyone for the good ole' Kansas "howdies" !

We are near Kingman. Grew up in Medicine Lodge & DH in Attica. DH manages Newberry Family Motors Ford in Kingman & I'm a SAHM. We have 4 sons ranging in age from 15 to 6

My chooks coop will be a lean-to off our old barn (built 1940s). Their's a small portion of the flooring that is concrete and has a turkey print on it. I told DH it was a sign, ha! I'm hoping one of my hens will brood us some Narragansett turkey eggs next spring....



Black trash bags are full of decomposing leaves for my garden, so will be gone soon. Will send picts of interior when done. Boy's want to hang an old porch swing inside for me to sit & cuddle with my new babies, ha!
Looks like you could have lots of chickens in there!
The guineas will be in a separate coop in our wood shed which is connected to our fenced in yard where our garden will be. Planning on clipping their wings to keep them from roaming but understand this still may not work from all I'm reading. If it does, looking forward to them being pest prevention

No need to clip wings on guineas. Just be sure to raise them from keets until they are old enough to care for themselves and they will come back to the coop to roost. I raised guineas with chicken chicks and put them out in the coop with the chickens and they still go there to roost. Others I had in a separate pen. I let them out when they aren't laying and they come back to stay in their own pen. If you buy older guineas you will have to keep them cooped a couple months for them to learn where home is.

Thank you all for the reply's!
And I don't mind honest opinions, and I don't mind being told if I'm doing it wrong! However, I hope you don't mind when I get stubborn and reply "It may be the wrong way, but its my way!" rofl (You know....I am a man )

The first year we move in I figure will be spent cleaning up and organizing. There is a barn there, and it will be my first coop with a static run.
You must be more patient than I. I get chicks then I decide what to do with them!

I have looked at chicken tractors, and mobile coops. I have considered a mobile coop with poultry netting, I have also looked at basically a large chicken tractor, and then also the coop with rotating yards. That is pone of the reasons I was hoping to find someone who was already doing this, so I could look at their operation and see how it is going for them and what they are doing.
On of the things I was unsure of with the rotating yards is just how long they can stay in one yard, and how long they have to be off of it before it is ready for them again?
With a large yard, How to you protect from aerial predators? We do have Hawks around here!
With rotating yards you just let the chickens range until the grass is fairly depleted then move them to the next. Some people reseed, others leave it to nature to replenish itself. I don't have a rotating yard. My birds pretty much make the rounds.
I am raising them for eggs, and plan on selling quite a few eggs.
Don't expect to make a profit on eggs alone....unless the feed costs go way down.
I Have already started playing with fermented feed - Can you ferment medicated chick starter?
Yes I ferment all my feed. I do have the youngest chicks on medicated feed without fermenting right now but everything over a couple weeks gets fermented medicated feed. They grow faster and do better on it. I only stopped the fermented feed for the youngest ones because I have them in the house and it was really messy.
I also plan on using the deep litter method in any stationary coops as well as brooders. As well as composted runs - I love multi purpose any thing!

While I am playing egg farmer, my GF is planning on a green house and BIG garden, lol! My chickens will be worker chickens - they make pretty good little tillers you know!
Are you going to make chicken tunnels in your garden? I planned to do that but it hasn't been executed. I dump my old shavings and poo in the garden and leave the gate open for the chickens to work it. I've also been doing the same on the flower garden and it's an amazing improvement on our hard clay soil.
Posted by Deerfield Acres

I haven't fermented medicated feed because it's all about chemistry and I don't know enough about it to make that call. What I'm doing instead is feeding dry medicated chick starter (used non-medicated on my last batch of chicks with no problems) and supplementing with fermented game bird starter. If I were raising meat birds, I would only use game bird starter to help get them to maturity a bit faster.

Well this is one of those cases I think I should have interfered. One of my goslings hatched. A second had to be helped this morning and third died after it pipped. Unfortunately the two that survived are both gray. The one that had fallen in the incubator and cracked open was white. I sure hope this gray guy didn't breed all the rest of the girls because I really don't care for the gray sebbies that much. Of course they will change some color as they get feathers so I'm not completely giving up. I haven't collected eggs for days because I have two broody girls right now and I am letting them attempt to hatch their own. I just have to hold my breath that all the ones I have incubated do okay. I need to find a way to get the humidity a little higher in this hatcher. The original owners were trying to get more air flow and drilled excess holes in it which causes too much air flow and releases too much humidity. I have duct tape over some of them but it doesn't work very well keeping humidity in.
I just candled a bunch of eggs to make room in the incubators. Kind of sad I had lots of turkey eggs that weren't fertile. I sure hope I didn't; butcher the only male knew what he was doing!
I still have to crank up another incubator. I am just totally out of room. So I am seriously thinking about buying one more. Holy moly. The cold weather has taken it's toll for sure on fertility. My rates are down considerably over what they were before the last couple of cold fronts moved in.
I guess that gave me a little more room though.

 

[chicken danz]

Josie I wondered if you tried to finish moving this weekend. The weather really stunk. But you really should have called me and let me know you were packing. I would have run over on Saturday for sure.
Thanks for the link....but you forgot to attach it!!! I hatched without a hitch last year but this kind of stunk. I'm not sure what went different this time. At least I have 2 healthy babies so far and lots more eggs in the bator. I haven't candled them cause I just want to give them every chance. One of these babies is definitely out of the gray boy. The other one I'm not sure yet. I have another two eggs due to hatch in two days and then a couple more on the 31st etc etc. I have two girls that went broody so I'm letting them sit. I saw two eggs under one and one under the other. The other however keeps covering her eggs so there could be gobs in there. There were two other nests the girls had made but nothing has been in them I am guessing the broody girls and stealing the others eggs to brood. I sure hope they know what they are doing. So far they seem to be okay. Lots of straw and lots of feathers in those piles. I hope I'm not making a mistake by letting them attempt to hatch their own. What do you think?
The eggs were all externally pipped. The one that died in the shell still had a lot of yolk left. The one I had to help was starting to dry out and ready to get out of there.
So sorry to hear that Lucy has to have her leg amputated. At least you really gave her your best shot. I've seen three legged dogs do pretty darned good. There were a couple in my home town when I was a kid and you'd hardly even notice they were missing a leg. Just the same I know it's been a major expense and pain trying to get her well.
Dang it I keep hitting send before I am done.

 

[JosieChick]

I knew you weren't feeling well and the weather was kinda iffy so I didn't want you driving up when it was crummy out. Plus we hired help too and could barely keep up with them!
I think you may have had late failure in the shell because they were such early eggs. Are you sure you have a gray? If so they would have dark, dark grey down all over. If so, your colored goslings will sell for at least $15-20 more than a white. Your younger white ganders may not be succeeding in getting the deed done either yet. I watched a young gander the other day try to mate and it was a disaster! I am going to let our gang each hatch their own clutch. I will take their eggs away until it is a bit warmer and then I will collect a good several and then sneak them back in at night so they will set a good pile of eggs instead of just sitting a few eggs.

Here is a link on sebbie color genetics, they don't talk about white but usually white is dominant over all color. So a white goose under a grey gander should produce white goslings the first generation. The second generation you may get some grey spotting in the back and potentially a grey baby here and there. Color genetics are wild in sebbies, it isn't just a matter of 50/50 and you never know what a white (or colored for that matter!) goose is "hiding" for color genetics unless you have a closed flock and have test hatched for several generations. In fact, original sebastopols all had grey flecking on their backs. It isn't until recently that breeding has produced "pure" white appearance in the birds.
Goose color genetics chart:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/68107081@N07/6197399658/in/photostream/
Incubation guide on BYC
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/491013/goose-incubation-hatching-guide-completed

I love my colored sebbies. I think they are just beautiful and they are "hot" on the market right now.

Josie I wondered if you tried to finish moving this weekend. The weather really stunk. But you really should have called me and let me know you were packing. I would have run over on Saturday for sure.
Thanks for the link. I hatched without a hitch last year but this kind of stunk. I'm not sure what went different this time. At least I have 2 healthy babies so far and lots more eggs in the bator. I haven't candled them cause I just want to give them every chance. One of these babies is definitely out of the gray boy. The other one I'm not sure yet. I have another two eggs due to hatch in two days and then a couple more on the 31st etc etc. I have two girls that went broody so I'm letting them sit. I saw two eggs under one and one under the other. The other however keeps covering her eggs so there could be gobs in there. There were two other nests the girls had made but nothing has been in them I am guessing the broody girls and stealing the others eggs to brood. I sure hope they know what they are doing. So far they seem to be okay. Lots of straw and lots of feathers in those piles. I hope I'm not making a mistake by letting them attempt to hatch their own. What do you think?
So sorry to hear that Lucy has to have her leg amputated. At least you really gave her your best shot. I've seen three legged dogs do pretty darned good. There were a couple in my home town when I was a kid and you'd hardly even notice they were missing a leg. Just the same I know it's been a major expense and pain trying to get her well.

 

[HEChicken]

HEchicken, I will send you a text today!

Like I said, there is no hurry - I knew you were busy moving so I decided not to bug you after I got back. My new BR cockerel is out of quarantine but too shy to approach any of the hens so the Wellie roo is still doing a good job here. I have some eggs that I hope will hatch OE's in the incubator right now - I'm so glad you mentioned that to me!

I'm so sorry to hear about Lucie. Ironically, I was just thinking about her while I was showering this morning and realized I hadn't heard anything about her progress for awhile. I guess all the talk of LGD's got me to wondering about her. Anyway, I hope the surgery goes well. My first day working in a vet clinic we had to amputate the leg of a Great Pyr who had got it caught in a trap and the owner left it long enough to go gangrenous. Grrr - people. Anyway, it was a front leg rather than back but that dog never looked back. She came back in for regular check ups after the surgery and she healed really well. The vet had had some concerns about amputation because these large dogs, unlike the small ones, sometimes have a harder time distributing their weight on only 3 legs, but this girl did really well so hopefully the same will be true of Lucie. I will be thinking about her for sure.

Well this is one of those cases I think I should have interfered. One of my goslings hatched. A second had to be helped this morning and third died after it pipped. Unfortunately the two that survived are both gray. The one that had fallen in the incubator and cracked open was white. I sure hope this gray guy didn't breed all the rest of the girls because I really don't care for the gray sebbies that much. Of course they will change some color as they get feathers so I'm not completely giving up. I haven't collected eggs for days because I have two broody girls right now and I am letting them attempt to hatch their own. I just have to hold my breath that all the ones I have incubated do okay. I need to find a way to get the humidity a little higher in this hatcher. The original owners were trying to get more air flow and drilled excess holes in it which causes too much air flow and releases too much humidity. I have duct tape over some of them but it doesn't work very well keeping humidity in.
I just candled a bunch of eggs to make room in the incubators. Kind of sad I had lots of turkey eggs that weren't fertile. I sure hope I didn't; butcher the only male knew what he was doing!
I still have to crank up another incubator. I am just totally out of room. So I am seriously thinking about buying one more. Holy moly. The cold weather has taken it's toll for sure on fertility. My rates are down considerably over what they were before the last couple of cold fronts moved in.
I guess that gave me a little more room though.

Awww...so sorry you lost one of the goslings. Hey, on the turkey eggs, do you know how early you can see into them? I have 4 eggs that are about at the end of day 3 of incubation and I'm dying to know if Ned has ever done more than just stand on Madge's back.

 

[JosieChick]

Danz- I lied!!! You will get colored goslings. Here is a bunch of color genetics stuff from the sebastopol lovers forum. It looks like in theory you will get grey geese and splash ganders from the cross. So confusing.....


White Gander x saddleback goose =
All white males with small black flecks & all white females.
All carry the saddleback gene so if you breed a white s.b. carrier
to another s.b. carrier or saddleback they will produce saddleback offspring.

Blue (or Gray) gander x white goose =
Blue (or Gray) females and splash males

White gander x blue goose =
Splash females and blue males

Blue Splash - Sex Linked
The gene that causes the blue splash color in geese is sex-linked and the blue splash is expressed only in males. Matings that produce Blue Splash males, produce females that are one of three colors: white, gray splash, or gray with more or less white on the head and neck.
Thank you Christine/Banter for this information!

Lavender
Grey x lavender = all blue offspring
Lavender x Buff = all blue offspring or possibly creams or other light colored
mutations.
Lavender x White = blue females and splash males and NO lavenders
but all of the above resulting offspring carry the lavender gene.

When breeding 2 birds that are buff gene carriers
(not buff colored themselves but carry a buff gene)
and resulting buff offspring will always be females.

 

[chicken danz]

Well Josie the first chick who's egg broke in the incubator was pure white. One of these is pretty gray all over and the other looks more saddle back. So I know fairly well at least one of the boys knew what he was doing before you brought over the gray boy. I don't mind the gray but I just like white, blue and lavender better.
At least one of my geese had some blue background and had a few blue feathers on it's back so I would guess that color would come out mixed with the gray as well. I've got lots of eggs cooking so who knows what the outcome will be. I was reading some of Pete's posts earlier and I see he always incubates on the side, which is what I am doing this year, but last year I incubated sitting up. Of course the incubator is one that is strictly an incubator and not a combo hatcher so you get a lot more tilt. I am going to try reducing humidity though and see if that helps at all. I've been kind of lax about keeping up with it anyway. But I can open more vents on the bator and see if that improves hatchability.
Hechicken I honestly can't say when it is good to check the turkey eggs. I just don't tend to candle early. I have this habit of dropping eggs and breaking them and of course those are always fertile ones! I had some that were 2 weeks in that I looked at today and could see clear development, but can't say much about earlier than that. I just don't feel it is worth the risk of breaking them or contaminating them to candle them if I don't absolutely have to have incubator space. If Ned is standing on her back I am sure he is doing his job. That is the thing that takes them awhile to learn. Just another few weeks and you'll have some turkeys I'll bet.
I was reading some where a while back that handling eggs deposits oils on the shells and that that alone can block air from entering the shell.
I am sure if Trudigale is lurking she'd be interested in this info. She was just asking me about goose genetics a few days ago. I was helpless.

 

[bbsnooks]

Hello ..
Coming out of lurking
i have a Question or 2

1) is there a date for the Human gathering in Wichita?
Looking to see if i can coordinate a time.. B 4 the chicks come next month..


2) about the Hoop coop's.. some one made some hoop coop's.. that looks pretty good.

I'm thinking about that style too.. especially since having difficulty deciding on permanent Location.. for a more anchored building.

My questions
- can this be a semi permanent home for layers.. if I supply nesting boxes for Layers
-about security around the perimeter..

I think the major predator is the Hawk out here in western Ks.. I just wondered if you find it necessary bury down around the edge or not.. ?
or what other things i should consider.


thanks.. for the input..

Debra.. First time coop builder...

I've read so much contradictory information. I'm pretty dazed & confused.. ( ? i don't think i have rats or weasels .. snakes maybe.. mice yes )
I'd like to make a decision and I'm having some trouble knowing just what to worry about ..

 

[chicken danz]

Hoop coops can be permanent coops. I plan to make mine with an actual coop in it. And the second one with two coops in the middle. Finishing is pending due to weather.
It's pretty wise to bury wire along the perimeter of a normal area. Coons,skunk, and possums, not to mention dogs can dig in and get to your chickens. I don't have wire down nearly as far as most people put it. And on the pens where I have a wood bottom to the wire I don't bury wire. But unless you have a deterrent like a guard dog I would definitely consider doing so. Hoop coops of course have wood on the bottom and are heavy so they are fairly safe I think. Just my opinion.

 

[Trish44]

bbsnooks, I also have a "permanent" hoop coop that I have my peafowl & guineas in. They're really heavy, so I doubt anything would be able to move them. I don't happen to have wire dug down around mine, but I do have rocks all the way around & I also have GPs for LGDs here. They have a bed not too many feet from that pen, so even when they're sleeping they're not that far away. We're getting ready to build another hoop coop also for the broilers we have coming next month, they're really nice because unlike the flat type of pens no water or snow can sit on top & cause the top to cave in. I have a huge tarp over the whole length of mine & plastic from that on down & on the back & it's not been that bad in there this winter. I didn't close the front in because I wanted air circulation, but it stayed warm enough in there even at that. I will be removing the plastic as soon as the weather warms enough & just leave the tarp on top.

Josie, I hope things to go well with Lucie, I'm sorry she is having to have the leg amputated, but hopefully she will still be able to get around fine on 3 legs. I'm glad you got the rest of your house moved even though the weather was really crummy. I'll bet you're relieved even with having to unpack now that you've got it all at the new place.

I hatched out 11 chicks for my friend yesterday, so now I have those chicks to house until she can come get them in a couple days. My brooder is full of my own chicks in the sun room & I have one crate with 3 Salmon Faverolles & 1 Wheaten Ameraucana chick in it that are bigger. I'm going to have to bring in another crate I guess to house these until she can get them. I'm running out of room in the house. I hope it gets warm enough soon for them all to go out to the garage to the brooders. I just got back from Wichita, we had to go up there to get new tires put on the old truck. My DH didn't want to keep the winter tires on it all summer, so he decided to go buy new tires & maybe those will be the last ones we have to buy for it. I've got to get out & build several rabbit nest boxes, I have 5 rabbits due on Friday & only one nest box for them, so I had better go get building.