CSU - Chicken State University- Large Fowl SOP

[Fred's Hens]

Here ya go. Robert Blosl posted these photos a few pages back.. These are good examples, until others do some posting. Very good examples.

Also, I strongly encourage folks to study those old drawings and paintings posted. Can you see the good tails? Can you see the shape? You don't see Schilling or those Ringlet paintings showing sober faults. Those are very good things to fix into your mind. You might notice that some of our modern roosters do not carry their tails quite as high, in angle degree, as they were depicted back then.

Male from North Carolina

A male of mine from six years ago notice leg color

Jim Volk Male 15 years ago



My old breeding pen 18 years ago

Pullet my old line three years ago

Nebraska Male Jermey birds he got from Frank Reese a few years ago.
Notice the nice tail on this male at this age. The proof of the pudding is will it be like
this when he is two or three years old?


Good Type to look Schilling cut 1950s

Frank Reese Line



Frank Reese Line. Notice the Rings of White on this female on the linb
This is what E B Tompson called his Ringlett line.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Not to commandeer the thread and send it off course, but, with regards to squirrel tail. Does anyone know why specifically it is so common? If I think of hatchery chicks with a faulty tail, regardless of breed, from Leghorns to Cochins, my mind shouts, "Squirrel tailed!". Neither does it seem to matter fro which hatchery. What is is about poultry or, perhaps, hatchery poultry or, perhaps, degenerating poultry, that seems to make squirrel tail such a common destination? This is an honest questin. It is something muscular? Skeletal? Is another portion of their body "off" such that it is a necessary compensation for balance?

See figure 40 in the SOP. Squirrel tail is the result of a body that is not correct. Narrow and shallow for it's breed. hatcheries don't breed for proper tails.

Walt

My daughter's Campines sometimes start out with really nice tails that they hold at the correct level and then as they mature, their tails come almost straight up. Can you talk just a little bit more about how to breed for the correct tail set? I understand the narrow and shallow, and I will direct her to this conversation, as a young breeder, how does she go about selecting for the width and depth out of what stock she already has?

 

[aoxa]

Fred, a few of these males don't appear to have wings tight to their body. Why is that? I know weak wing is a huge issue people are working on with fancy breeds (like silkies) and I see it in my rocks as well (the boys).

The first picture in that post by Robert has tight wings, but all the others (except the drawing) look loose in comparison. It's probably hard to judge via a photo, as who knows if those birds were hot or just not sitting with their wings in the correct position, but I'd like to know more about how wings should be held.

I think THIS is an excellent example of what I think wings should look like.

 

[Fred's Hens]

We're gonna stay on tails for a bit longer, then move to breasts, then backs, and then to wings.
If we jump all over the place, it makes it very hard to follow along, Are we agreed?


In the SOP of early part of the 20th century, there is a section of breeding to correct these faults.

http://www.archive.org/stream/cu31924003091737#page/n139/mode/2up

Sure, it is an old SOP, so you should buy a newer one, but this is online and it is a place to start reading and doing some background thinking. Thus, I post this link.

Basically, on tails, in my little world, I want to pull down a high positioned tail by mating with a bird having a low position tail. Let's assume I begin with a higher tailed cockerel. Not uncommon. I'm likely gonna have to score a lower tailed female, somewhere, to help pull that down. I'm likely going to have to cull offspring I don't like or won't help, then, taking what I have and move slowly forward. Go slow. Shoot for down the middle. I'm no expert. This is just what I do. YMMV.

 

[mbmess2003]

i don't have LF Rocks but i do have some bantams that I picked up from Bob at the Pensacola show. some of the things that i want to work on is making sure the wings are tight to the body, getting the "gravy bowl" shape consistent....reducing some of the cushion on the pullets/hens (combs aren't perfect but not terribly worried about that at this point.). it will be a learning experience for sure but thankful there are lots of great resources here to learn from.








put them outside while cleaning out their cages

 

[mbmess2003]

excuse the mud.....we have had just a little bit of rain here in the south!

 

[aoxa]

Here's a diagram of squirrel tail from that publication as well Fred.

 

[Gallusfarm]

And here is what we want.

 

[Robert Blosl]

I want to tell you about crossing White Rocks on to Barred Rocks is it a easy thing to do? Do many try to do this? What has been their success doing this? How soon will you have top notch barring on your super White Rock Type birds?

My first year I had Barred Rocks that made me fall to my knees. They had my classic White Rock type the males tails where the best I ever saw on a Barred Rock, however I had color that was coochoo in color its was muddy dirty the white was so screwed up and the back or blue was light than the sire. After looking over the project I said to myself it would take five to seven years and hundreds and thousands of dollars to correct and I scraped the project. I can spost a Barred Rock with White Rock blood in them. There color is off but you will see nice tails in the males. The first picture of two males from Michigan which came from North Carolina had White Rock Blood in them.

However, many people will try to cross Whites on to barreds and I wish them the best. I was told the secret is to make sure the White bird has black feathers showing on them that will help speed up the color battle. I dont know but that is what I was told. My problem I had a stay white strain and no black in my females.

In regards to the type of a Rock, its tail its wing carrage ect giving some slack to them. The Whites have the best type and the colored varieties have some type issues or even worse poor type on the very rare ones. The Plymouth Rock is a popular breed in the USA and a great breed club but not a lot of large fowl but mostly bantams are shown today. When it comes to the colored varieties they are very very rare today and in some cases not a high scoring bird to compeat ageist the White birds. There is a large fowl Barred Rock breeder in Ohio that I have recently seen where his males seem to have a more consistent fully furnished tails then some other lines I have seen. This breeder has spent over 15 years working on these birds and it shows when he competes assist the top white rock breeders when shown in the mid west. If you want to know about this breeder send me a personnel message and I will send you his email address. Sources told me he got these birds 15 years ago from Mr. Ralph Sturgeons nephew who got some barreds from his uncle be for he died.

Keep the pictures coming maybe the judges can make comments on this breed.

 

[fowlman01]

Fred, a few of these males don't appear to have wings tight to their body. Why is that? I know weak wing is a huge issue people are working on with fancy breeds (like silkies) and I see it in my rocks as well (the boys).

The first picture in that post by Robert has tight wings, but all the others (except the drawing) look loose in comparison. It's probably hard to judge via a photo, as who knows if those birds were hot or just not sitting with their wings in the correct position, but I'd like to know more about how wings should be held.

I think THIS is an excellent example of what I think wings should look like.

Not to me. The only bird that looks a bit loose is the Nebraska bird and I think that is just the picture.

Walt