CSU - Chicken State University- Large Fowl SOP

[fowlman01]

This is the German Welsummers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgtz74atXT0


And there are some of Mr Pilgrim's and Mr Eissens' Welsummer pictures floating around.

This link is a MUST read to compare the Dutch and British Welsummers.
http://www.aviculture-europe.nl/nummers/12E05A10.pdf

OK. It is too hard to see the chest, but what I can see with the German birds is more low tails and no shafting past the shoulders on the back. The same with the Dutch birds. I will look at more pictures later.

Walt

 

[faykokoWV]

I would suggest you do that and it should be fine as long as your approach is non confrontational. Judges have a lot of people get in their face, so they may be defensive at first. You might point out that you are trying to promote the breed and that it has some fine points that are sometimes overlooked. I know that I respond to people they way they respond to me.

You don't have to show to do this. Get the judge(s) after judging or before if you are showing. A good time is Friday night or 7:30 or 8 am on Saturday morning. Anytime you run across a judge bend his/her ear. This works. The Ko Shamo people have done this with great success.

Let me know how this works out.

Walt

Legally, we aren't allowed to have poultry shows in WV - don't even get me started on the stupidity of that! but I am going to try and get to the show in Lucasville, Oh this fall, its not too far from me

 

[fowlman01]

Interesting on the shafting Walt.

I took this picture this morning showing the chest.

Since you are OK with this.....let's make some other comments regarding shafting. Shafting is always described as distinct. The shafting on the front of this bird is there, but very wide...which is always a fault. You can see that the shafting on the back is distinct. Now they have two different backgrounds but I thiink anyone can see that the chest shafting is not distinct. The SOP still does not allow shafting on the chest....as it reads now.

Walt

 

[fowlman01]

Let me throw this out.

Does anyone think the APA/ABA Standards should be easy to change and if you do explain why.

w.

The other thing I forgot to post in my assessment of the Dutch and German birds is that the females have terrible leg color in both countries. Mostly the females which is the way it usually is in yellow legged breeds.

 

[faykokoWV]

Walt, I think all of us are ok with critique of our birds... we actually welcome it. I have to say, the Welsummer group has been one of the best that I participate in (nothing against the others) when it comes to open straight forward feedback both positive and negative.

 

[fowlman01]

Legally, we aren't allowed to have poultry shows in WV - don't even get me started on the stupidity of that! but I am going to try and get to the show in Lucasville, Oh this fall, its not too far from me

That would be the place to do it. That is a very good, well attended show and the Saturday lunch is awesome. If you PM before the show and let me know who is judging, I might be able to get a few judges for you to talk to.

w.

 

[faykokoWV]

Let me throw this out.

Does anyone think the APA/ABA Standards should be easy to change and if you do explain why.

w.

The other thing I forgot to post in my assessment of the Dutch and German birds is that the females have terrible leg color in both countries. Mostly the females which is the way it usually is in yellow legged breeds.

I do not think they should be easy to change!! If they were too easy to change, breeders would change the standard to fit their birds, not the other way around. I am trying to wrap my brain around this shafting on the breast though. Sometimes I wish it were easier to see the pictures and information the standard was based on. All I have to go on is what I can find on the internet and from speaking with as many breeders as I can. I'm very glad this was brought up, because honestly, it was not something I was even looking at in the birds. Now I can add that to my list of breeding criteria. I'd still love to see and example of what it should look like!

 

[Texasmja]

Let me throw this out.

Does anyone think the APA/ABA Standards should be easy to change and if you do explain why.

w.

The other thing I forgot to post in my assessment of the Dutch and German birds is that the females have terrible leg color in both countries. Mostly the females which is the way it usually is in yellow legged breeds.

It should be very difficult to ever change anything in the SOP. Otherwise, the latest fad and hippest group will change the SOP to fit their birds instead of breeding birds to fit the SOP.

 

[Happy Chooks]

Regarding breast color: Chestnut is not how I would describe the coloring, but there could be a range of chestnut that would fit. I call it more salmon colored, as to me, it looks to have an orange tint. I've never had a chest color this dark, nor have I seen one in pictures.

On the chest shafting: I've gone back and looked at all the pictures posted, plus I've seen a lot of pictures of Dutch Welsummers and other birds from breeders in the US. I have never seen a welsummer hen that did not have a shafting line on the chest. I'm not saying the SOP is right, wrong, or otherwise - just what I have seen in my time of working with them. (which I realize is not a long time when you consider long time breeders that have been working on them for decades) Nor am I suggesting a change, just giving my experience with the breed - I'm by far not experienced enough to try and make any changes. If anyone has a picture of a hen without a shafting line in the breast, I'd love to see it.

On yellow leg coloring: Yes, they do lose the coloring as they age. I believe that is why so many of us try to focus on it. It is the same with barnevelders. You can have the brightest yellow legs when they are young, and by the time they start laying, they have faded to barely yellow. I know some people mention feeding marigold extract - I myself have not tried it.

On the peppering that Bjorn mentioned: I have talked with him in the past on this issue. I had a pullet that was gorgeous in her first year. Then after she went through her first large molt, she feathered in looking more laced. I culled her to a layer flock immediately. I took a picture of it and shared it for learning on too much black in the body coloring.

 

[Happy Chooks]

Quote:
I'm not trying to argue, just trying to get clarification. When I think of the word "distinct", I think of a contrast of coloring. But you are speaking width. So you want this contrast, but in a thin, sharp line?

There is no perfect bird, but getting clear on some of the wordings in the SOP helps me visualize more of what I'm after to try and get there. Also, since I have yet to attend a show, do you encounter many welsummers in shows? I'm gathering that not many are being shown? I know a few breeders that show their birds, but I'm just wondering if there are many being shown?