Help! Casey (My Duck) has a prolapse! First time treatment for me.

[Amiga]

Casey got her last dose of the anti-inflammatory today, her antibiotic should be gone tonight or tomorrow. She has been eating slightly more meal worms. We let her out to eat and drink 2-4 times per day in addition to her medicine times and she gets a bath at least every other day. She was eating 1-10 worms per session, now she is probably eating 1-2 tablespoons of worms so maybe a 1/4 cup / day. She might eat half a leaf of lettuce too. She still seems happy and alert (as long as it isn't med time). She also still has cleavage as of this morning vs a keel so she's not wasting away yet.

Yvonne is having a very hard time with the syringe and to be fair, it really isn't easy. I am sure the vet is using what they have, but they are 3ml syringes and the barrel is only 2-1/2" long, so by the time you are past the trachea in the "safe zone", you are in serious danger of dropping the whole syringe into the duck (the finger holds on the side of the barrel and the plunger would probably keep that from actually happening, but I've got it down pretty good now and that part is still kind of scary.) I would prefer a barrel that was 3" to 3-1/2" so I could hold it more securely. It is about 3/8" in diameter and that fits easily down Casey's throat so I would be happier with either a larger capacity (5ml same diameter) or thinner and longer.

I think tomorrow, I might stop by Murdoch's and get a 30ml syringe or so and some tubing and mix up some mash and tube feed her just for the experience while she is used to putting up with the experience. If it goes well, maybe Yvonne can try that and if she likes that better, we should be able to in the future load a 30ml syringe with approx 5ml of mush, then the meds (measured with the little syringes), then fill it the rest of the way with mush, put the tube on, insert the plunger and send it all down into the duck. That way no matter what we should get 100% of the dosage in the duck with only one struggle period and they'll get a little added food.

I would definitely try that, too....

 

[Tevyes Dad]

Arrrrg! Poor little Casey. She has another dried on poop forming inside her (she protested during 2 of her poops today and when I put her cream on, she was pushing it in and out a bit. She hasn't prolapsed again yet (I think the stitches are helping there, but it will have to work its way out). The vet said they form because of an irritation on the lining and I'm going to guess it has been the same irritation from the beginning. And that under "normal" circumstances, it would release as she healed, but in the prior 2 cases she prolapsed and there were two of them (there may only be one now). It is way to far in for me to do anything (except for the split second she pushes it out and I don't think grab and yank would be doing her any favors). So as long as she's pooping and not actually prolapsed, I guess she can try to push it out (she is still getting antibiotic cream on her vent and will get at least two more doses of her oral antibiotic). I feel so bad for her, but don't know what else I can do. I will try to speak with the vet tomorrow if possible. I hate the idea that she is hurting

 

[Tevyes Dad]

Well she behaved normal again this morning and she still hasn't re-prolapsed. She seemed to poop without distress (that is our routine, she comes out of the carrier, drinks some water, eats some worms, poops, gets meds, drinks some more water and maybe nibbles a worm or two, gets cream and back into the carrier.) Then we'll get her out for bath or visit at some other point before her next medication time so that we don't always represent bad things... Hopefully her next meds will include a meal

 

[Miss Lydia]

Well she behaved normal again this morning and she still hasn't re-prolapsed. She seemed to poop without distress (that is our routine, she comes out of the carrier, drinks some water, eats some worms, poops, gets meds, drinks some more water and maybe nibbles a worm or two, gets cream and back into the carrier.) Then we'll get her out for bath or visit at some other point before her next medication time so that we don't always represent bad things... Hopefully her next meds will include a meal

That is encouraging. Glad to hear things seems normal this morning. Is this thing that comes out similar to what a hemorrhoid is in a human?

 

[Tevyes Dad]

That is encouraging.  Glad to hear things seems normal this morning.  Is this thing that comes out similar to what a hemorrhoid is in a human? 

No, it is a dried poop bonded to the inside wall of her vent. You can see 2 in the first pics on this thread when she was prolapsed. Last night she was pushing it so it peeked out (probably trying to dislodge it). This morning i couldn't see any sign of it, but she wasn't pushing.

 

[Miss Lydia]

No, it is a dried poop bonded to the inside wall of her vent. You can see 2 in the first pics on this thread when she was prolapsed. Last night she was pushing it so it peeked out (probably trying to dislodge it). This morning i couldn't see any sign of it, but she wasn't pushing.

I knew there was something there first go around . Wonder what is causing this did the vet know?

 

[Tevyes Dad]

I knew there was something there first go around . Wonder what is causing this did the vet know?

She said the original problem was an irritation. That could have been Kaine being extra Kaine (I doubt it this time of year, he has been pretty mellow and never has been over the top with Casey - Tella maybe). Or an extra big egg for her. Her eggs are a little short vs the big ducks, but almost the same diameter, so that could have easily been it since she was 1 of 2 layers we had at the time (now nobody is laying). Once there is an irritation I guess it gets rough (maybe like a scab) and the poop clings to the rough area. This probably happens all the time with minor things, but she had two big ones and she probably just pushed real hard trying to fix them and prolapsed. Over all it isn't very far inside her so I am guessing it is in the small area where both eggs and poop go just before coming out of the vent. Allie turns more than the entire size of Casey's prolapse inside out every time she poops, but it goes right back in afterward.

I just gave Casey 30 ml of food solution. She struggled while I tried to get the tube in, I cut it about 6" long total so it goes about 3" down her throat, but she didn't seem to have any real problem with my injecting 30ml over about 4-5 seconds. I figure that gives her 5-6 hrs to digest it before I give her some more with her medication. Her normal food has some chunks that are too big to go though the syringe so for now, I make a smoothie from her food in the blender.

@casportpony This is what I am currently using.

Since I have 15 ducks and want to be prepared, Ideally I would like a setup with an ID of 1/8" or so (so I wouldn't need the blender) and a semi-rigid (more than this silicone) tube so that guiding it in 1 handed would be easier and where the needle/tube locks to the syringe so there is no chance of it falling into the duck. I would love something like the stainless steel ball tipped crop feeding needles I have seen, but the largest I have seen is 8 gauge which if that was the I.D. that would work, but I am guessing it is the outside diameter or even worse the ball diameter and they are made for a parrot so I am sure even my smallest runner could live with a larger needle. I wonder since you seem to do this kind of thing frequently, if you have run across a supply company that has larger crop feeding tubes/syringes or if I am just completely off base and should just find a better water grade tube for my existing syringe. Thank you for all the assistance.

 

[casportpony]

Congrats on tubing!

On large fowl (chickens, ducks, peas, turkeys, guineas) I don't cut them, that way I don't worry about about them getting swallowed. Small chicks I use something like this cut down 8 french







Largest I use is a size 30 french, and that is big enough that moistened crumbles pass easily. Smallest tube I use on an adult is 18, and crumbles will pass though that if I moisten them then use a stick blender to puree them.

Here are the sizes:

French
Gauge Diameter
(mm) Diameter
(inches)
3 1 0.039
4 1.33 0.053
5 1.67 0.066
6 2 0.079
7 2.3 0.092
8 2.7 0.105
9 3 0.118
10 3.3 0.131
11 3.7 0.144
12 4 0.158
13 4.3 0.170
14 4.7 0.184
15 5 0.197
16 5.3 0.210
17 5.7 0.223
18 6 0.236
19 6.3 0.249
20 6.7 0.263
22 7.3 0.288
24 8 0.315
26 8.7 0.341
28 9.3 0.367
30 10 0.393
32 10.7 0.419
34 11.3 0.445​

These are soft tubes



The 30
http://www.greatmedicalsupplies.com...l-purpose-robinsonnelaton-catheter-351030.htm

The 28
http://www.greatmedicalsupplies.com...l-purpose-robinsonnelaton-catheter-351028.htm

The 26
http://www.greatmedicalsupplies.com...l-purpose-robinsonnelaton-catheter-351026.htm

The 24
http://www.greatmedicalsupplies.com...l-purpose-robinsonnelaton-catheter-351024.htm

The 22
http://www.greatmedicalsupplies.com...l-purpose-robinsonnelaton-catheter-351022.htm

The 20
http://www.greatmedicalsupplies.com...l-purpose-robinsonnelaton-catheter-351020.htm

The 18
http://www.greatmedicalsupplies.com...l-purpose-robinsonnelaton-catheter-351018.htm

The 16
http://www.greatmedicalsupplies.com...l-purpose-robinsonnelaton-catheter-351016.htm

The 14
http://www.greatmedicalsupplies.com...l-purpose-robinsonnelaton-catheter-351014.htm

The 12
http://www.greatmedicalsupplies.com...l-purpose-robinsonnelaton-catheter-351012.htm

The 10
http://www.greatmedicalsupplies.com...l-purpose-robinsonnelaton-catheter-351010.htm

The 8
http://www.greatmedicalsupplies.com...l-purpose-robinsonnelaton-catheter-351008.htm


These might me a little stiffer:
http://www.liberatormedical.com/catheters/Products-Kendall.php
Kendall Catheters

Back to Products Selection Home Page

​

Dover Urethral Catheters
Rob-Nel 100% latex free


Click image for larger view
100 per case
Code Size HCPCS
8888492017 8 FR 14" A4351
8888492025 10 FR 14"
8888492033 12 FR 14"
8888492041 14 FR 14"
8888492058 16 FR 14"
8888492066 18 FR 14"
8888492120 20 FR 14"
8888492122 22 FR 14"
8888492124 24 FR 14"
8888492126 26 FR 14"
8888492128 28 FR 14"
8888492130 30 FR 14"​

The size 8 shown with the chick above is a part number

8888492017, and it's definetly firmer than the other brand.​

-Kathy

 

[Tevyes Dad]

Thanks @casportpony ! Looks like I might be set up fairly well then. I cut the tube for two reasons. 1. It was a catheter so had the little side holes so at least the tip had to come off. 2. Doing this solo I didn't want to be spinning a limp spaghetti noodle around trying to drop it in a ducks throat. Now that I know what I'm looking at, the one I have is a size 16 Fr so it is pretty small. I just had some tool envy when I saw the setups they have for parakeets - parrots. Between the ball end and the rigid steel, I imagine it would be very easy to use one handed. We don't normally have crumbles around, but I imagine once I run it through the blender, it's the same thing. Thank you for the links! I will definitely go through them. I would still love it if I could find a slightly bigger version of this:



The biggest one there is the 8 gauge which works out to just under 10 Fr. <sigh>. And to anyone who hasn't done it, tubing is WAY easier (and safer) than trying to be safe with the little syringe that came with the medication!

 

[casportpony]

@Tevyes Dad , this place makes an 8 gauge

http://www.ssneedles.com/product/feeding_needles




-Kathy