How much would you pay for a dog?

[amazondoc]

Quote:
They aren't as traceable as you would think.

This probably varies by state. The only states I have experience with, so far as tags go, are Utah and Tennessee. In these states, rabies tags are traceable. Rules may have changed in recent years, but in "my time" (when I was in practice), each tag was recorded individually, with the record kept both by the individual vet and by the state.

I agree with you about microchips, though!

 

[amazondoc]

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Sure you can. Lots of rescues and shelters have an overload of purebred dogs. I myself do doberman rescue. I have competed in rally and obedience with them, and done additional training in agility and schutzhund. I dropped out of schutzhund because **I** was too lazy, not because the dog was unsuitable.

 

[twentynine]

You guys pay for dogs?

got two of'em paid zero.

Chiuahua (you know little mexican dog)
Beagle.

Both of'em need us.

 

[aussieheelr]

Well I personally wouldn't BUY a dog. That being said, I got my Pirate (heeler catahoula mix) for free in front of Wal*mart when he was 8 weeks old... I call him my "wal*mart special" at 6 months he tried to "heel" a car and his vet bill all said and done was over $900. I personally would have been ok with putting him down but DH wouldn't let me do it... he's a bit softer than me.

So things happen anyway. Free pup+ $900= still equals my best friend.

 

[Rusty Hills Farm]

Quote:
Sure you can. Lots of rescues and shelters have an overload of purebred dogs. I myself do doberman rescue. I have competed in rally and obedience with them, and done additional training in agility and schutzhund. I dropped out of schutzhund because **I** was too lazy, not because the dog was unsuitable.

Sorry but you cannot show a neutered dog in breed and I've never seen a rescue that did not either neuter the animal themselves or send you to have it done as a condition of the adoption. Nor have I personally ever seen a rescue competing in formal trials at the high levels. Of course, your experience may be totally different than mine, but when I invest all the money that it takes to compete at that level, I start out with the best prospect I can find.

Rescue absolutely has its place. It has saved a lot of good dogs who deserved saving. I just don't want folks thinking they can rescue some puppy mill "purebred" and actually go out and win with it. Expensive dogs are expensive for legitimate reasons. Heck, the OFA testing alone is worth a small fortune! Every title on the parent dogs costs big bucks to earn. A competitor has a WAY better chance of earning titles on a puppy who comes from titled parents and grandparents that have all their OFA ratings too than from one whose parentage and show history are a big question mark. That is just common sense and good money management. Not to mention that it can save a lot of heartbreak and disappointment.


Rusty

 

[RabbitMage]

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You can't show a neutered dog in conformation, but if I recall correctly you can show them in every other event.

 

[amazondoc]

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You weren't talking about conformation, you were talking about schutzhund. Conformation is the one place that altered dogs can't compete. They CAN compete -- and succeed -- everywhere else.

I just don't want folks thinking they can rescue some puppy mill "purebred" and actually go out and win with it.

They SHOULD be thinking that they can -- because they absolutely can. I personally know rescue dogs with MACH (Master Agility Champion) and/or OTCH (Obedience Trial Champion) titles.


ETA: speaking of winners, I got interested and looked up the winners of the 2009 AKC Agility Invitational championship. One of the winners was a rescued miniature schnauzer.

ETA: okay, so it's a cold day and I'm avoiding work. Rusty Hills, what's your breed? You said you like schutzhund, so maybe malinois? There are 28 Belgian mals which have ever earned the MACH title. I have already found out that at least **4** of those mals have ILP numbers (rescue dogs are registered with ILP numbers, for those of you who might not know). Yes, rescues can succeed at the very top levels of competition!​

 

[Windrider]

I absolutely agree with Amazondoc that purebred rescues do just fine in performance events, but with a modifier. When selecting a rescue knowing you are going to compete with that dog, you had better know what to look for. You better know a lot about proper structure if you are going to do something like agility, and you better know how to recognize if the dog is going to be biddable and if it has drive. If you pay a lot for a dog from known performance lines, the breeder has done the work for you and has bred dogs that consistently show these desirable traits. Doesn't mean you can't get a good rescue dog if you are patient and know what to look for. I compete with my rescues and we have earned titles in multiple venues.

Our highest ranked agility rough collie - he is a MACH 6 or something insane like that - was a rescue. His owner jokes that no breeder would claim him as one of theirs. True, he has a fairly ugly head for a collie, but just excellent body structure. He competed at the Invitational a couple years ago at the age of 11 still jumping his normal 24" height. He would have placed, too (ahead of all the border collies), it he hadn't knocked the very last bar on his very last run. There were a bunch of dogs like him at the Invitational - some breeds actually compete better if they don't adhere too closely to their breed standard. The top agility GSD was very small and lightly built, the top pug had a way more leg than pugs are supposed to have, the top Aussie was a mini (my Aussie owning friends really hate that LOL) - I could go on and on. I have seen the same thing in the obedience ring and in tracking, maybe a little less in the herding venue though. Herding instinct does have to be carefully bred, though I know a few rescues that have high level herding titles.

Anyway... there is no right answer to the original question. I have competed with inexpensive dogs that were other people's trash and have done well and the dogs were a joy to have in my life. But my next dog is going to be a very expensive collie. I am supporting this breeder because they are part of a movement that is dear to my heart: reclaiming the collie's heritage as the farmer's most versatile dog, not just a pretty show face. People who are part of this movement (including this breeder) have collies that not only win in the breed ring, but in addition work stock of all sorts, do tracking and SAR, do obedience and agility and flyball, and do carting and joring. The goal is to have collies with titles at BOTH ends of their name and are game to do just about anything.

 

[amazondoc]

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This is the kind of breeding I can support. If a person is going to breed, then for heaven's sake do it RIGHT. Preserve both appearance AND function -- as we try to do with many of the poultry breeds. And if you're going to acquire a dog -- either invest the time and money to find the best of the best, or get a rescue. Don't waste your money or encourage overbreeding by buying from lesser breeders.

 

[Rusty Hills Farm]

Rusty Hills, what's your breed? You said you like schutzhund,

I have Dobies and GSDs. And I admit I have not done any formal research on the topic of rescues who have SchH3 titles. I just have not personally seen any that I know of. My main point is, and continues to be, that this sport is too expensive for me to start out with anything but the best bred puppy I can find. My hat is off to folks who try with rescue dogs. The rescue dogs I have had were not capable of this level. I loved them anyway. Every other dog I've had has started out as the best puppy I could find.

Yes, there are too many dogs being bred today. However, the good, well-bred ones are not the problem. They have never been the problem! The problem is all the silly jerks who breed without ANY notion of what they are doing. We NEED the good, conscientious breeders who test for everything, get out there and compete, have their dogs assessed by the authorities on their breed, and then only look into breeding their very worthy dog. We need them because they give the breed the ongoing quality it needs in order to continue to be the breed it's supposed to be. This takes hard, often heartbreaking dedication. Yet they are forever getting slammed in threads like this one because they are breeders. Why is it so hard for folks to understand that the reason a GSD, for example, looks, works, and behaves like a GSD is SUPPOSED to is because of the breeders' dedication to their breed.

Why can't folks grasp the simple reality that it's the neighbors whose dogs produce all those free puppies they are sooo proud of not having to pay for--THOSE are the folks undermining the very breeds they claim to love! It's the idiots who don't know what their pedigrees actually mean and can't be bothered to learn, who breed affected dogs to affected dogs, thus perpetuating hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia, congenital heart defects, etc. And because they have done this over and over for generation after generation, the problems have become huge and unrelenting. They are the very ones who cannot be bothered to test for these things now that we finally have the tools to weed out the animals who are unfit for breeding!

Okay, I'm gonna quit now. I promised myself a few days ago to stop reading and posting to this thread. It makes me too angry. And, frankly, it is futile. The idiots will go right on being idiotic and I will go right on UNREPENTANTLY giving my best to the best dogs I can find.


Rusty​