Mean rooster...

[Triple Willow]

Chooks4Life... I sure am glad you have arrived to sort this all out. LOL No I am not "anti- free-range". I find it impossible to believe that you run birds free range with that many predators right on top of you and you don't suffer high losses. What's the rest of the story? Do you have guardian dogs/animals? Good fencing? If you can do that where you live I want to move there because if I just turned my birds loose to fend for themselves I wouldn't have any birds very long. Where I live it takes good electric boundary fences and/or guardian animals to have chickens on free range and not suffer huge losses. That is how it is in the US (if it's not that way somewhere I don't know where that place is). And where I live, this time of year if a bird does not have shelter it will end up at some point being froze stiff due to freezing rain and high winds.

 

[Triple Willow]

Thanks for the idea, triple willow. And yeah i know they normally calm down but that could be months from now and by then he would've already killed this poor hen. She's still pretty weak but i think she'll pull through just fine.

I meant to keep him away from her until he got out of that stage. You might want to take a look at your rooster to pullet ratio. I find that a lot of times roosters are calmer and do better if they are the only flock roo and don't have a rival. Good luck to you.

 

[AinaWGSD]

My thoughts on the question, without getting into the humanity or inhumanity of free ranging, or dumping, a lone chicken, would be one question. What is the reason for you keeping a rooster in the first place? Pretty is nice, but if he's an easter egger then you aren't showing him as he doesn't meet any breed standard. If you have other roos, then you don't need him for breeding as you have other roosters that can fulfill that need. Personally, I feel that regardless of what breed (or even if all you want are a few barnyard mixes) you are breeding you should choose breeding stock with an eye on temperament. If this rooster doesn't have a temperament that you like, then I don't feel it matters how pretty he is as that temperament can be passed on to his offspring.

 

[GarthRyan]

I understand the mating ritual and know what's normal. This rooster is just rough. Over the top. And to begin with, rooster to hen ratio was off and I'd planned to do this with this guy because he's a different breed than his counterparts and if i decided to hatch eggs i wanted pure bred (or as pure as they can be, not knowing their background).

And I'm keeping him because, A. I like the way he looks and to me it's a rare breed even if it meets no show qualities. I've never seen one. B. I'd rather let him roam my yard than get rid of him or eat him. We had some of the neighbors chickens come over everyday and scratch in the leaves, they'd have the whole yard about turned upside down and that fascinated me because I'd never really been around chickens and those stray birds are what got me wanting chickens. I would free range my whole flock but i don't trust that they would go back in the pen at night.

Anyways, I've about got my mind made up to keep him and do as I've said but I might wait a day or two until this bad weather passes. He's acclimated to the cold but that's laying with his buddies at night and I'm not just going to set him up to freeze to death, I'm still looking out for his well-being. I still care about him and I have a heart do I'm not going to put him into a situation that I'm sure he's going to suffer in.

 

[chooks4life]

Good to see things have cleared up a lot. Best wishes, Garthryan, with your flock management. Everyone's got their own rules and beliefs, and there are many means to an end. Hopefully things work out alright.

@Triple Willow:
Quote: Hey, at least I tried, lol. I thought you were possibly anti free range because you said this:
Quote: Generally those who are against free ranging tend to say things like that, referencing the dangers of free ranging, hence my assumption. I'm pro free ranging obviously but I don't condemn or attack those who have different opinions on it.
Quote: Hard to believe but that's the truth of it. No 'rest of story'. No guns, no trapping, no baiting, no guardian livestock dogs or other animals, no fencing beyond the usual four-strand barbed wire paddock fencing, but the cages themselves have that chainlink mesh for walls. Pythons still got in all the time but I developed a 'feel' for 'python nights' and learned to show up on time more often than not. (They prefer between 10pm and 2am, low humidity, medium to cool temperatures, no or little rain, and no wind, in my experience). No electric fences either. I've noticed that all these precautions in the USA seem to not help at all, really, people have foxes etc breaking into their super-secure cages anyway.

The hen that was taken by the feral dog was taken almost in the house yard, and the python that almost killed the cockerel was right in their nesting area. The hawk took the other cockerel right in the house paddock. The rest of the time they went out into the remnant jungle daily without issues. Sometimes there were noises like something had attempted to get one but they always came home all accounted for.

I think perhaps one thing that may have kept them safer is that I run a ratio of males to females that is up to 50:50, and since males need less food than a laying hen they're often just watching out while the others feed. It must be awfully hard for any predator to get close enough to do anything with so many watchful eyes. I've heard other people run more roosters with their flocks for better protection, so perhaps that's it.

Also, the forest was jungle remnant, vines tangled everywhere, even a dog would have some trouble running through some parts of it in pursuit of a chicken. Another thing is that I breed mongrels, and I value their ability to fly, and since I feed them pretty naturally and let them free range so much, they're quite fit and no doubt far better at escaping anything they need to than for example a meat bird that eats grower feeds and only free ranges in the late afternoon for a few hours a day. Some of my poultry can fly properly, not all, but very few are as useless on the wing as some breeds are.
Quote: I live in Queensland, Australia, feel free to move here.

I don't much like the extreme heat we reach here though, so want to move to a generally cooler state soon. Still subtropical but not 47 degrees in the shade, lol! The other day, I had to go wet the sheep and dog down, and the grass and plants were hot to the touch, almost hot enough to cook an egg on, or spontaneously combust. Luckily people have been doing their burning off here, otherwise we could wind up in the midst of a massive wildfire. I'd guess that's not a threat you have to worry about too much, aye? Pros and cons? Paralysis ticks suck, pardon the pun, too, and the heat can be as deadly as the cold.
Quote: Strange, my experiences have been exactly the opposite. The times when the flock was whittled down to one or two roosters, the males always became "insta-tyrants" and bullies. Reintroducing extra males into the area became a lesson in intolerance control.

The less other males they had to tolerate, the more intolerant they became, almost overnight, even if they'd been raised with many other males. So as a precaution I always keep more males than I intend to breed, so I can maintain separate family lines, not inbreed, not waste hen's breeding seasons waiting for an unrelated male to replace the single breeding male who happens to be related to them, and also so I know I'm breeding tolerant stock. It baffles me why some people will for example have a flock of ewes they divide into two so one ram can mate with the unrelated half of the flock, while the other related half misses a whole breeding season waiting for the replacement solo stud male. Multiple stud males is my preference. But, whatever works for you. I keep them for meat as well as eggs so the males having tolerance of other males of all ages is of obvious importance. Temperament's definitely something you breed for, even if you think you're not. Your beliefs shape the temperament of your "strain" over time.

Best wishes to everyone and their flocks.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Garthryan, I did not mean to give offense if I did. It’s real hard on here to know what people’s experiences are. There are a lot of people that see normal chicken behavior and think the world has come to an end. One that really sticks in my head is a thread a while back where a woman saw a neighborhood rooster raping her hens so she got a shotgun and blew the rooster away. I need to get that image out of my head.

Anyway I’m glad you’ve decided what to do. I don’t tolerate a chicken that is a behavior problem in my flock either, male or female.

Chooks, what you describe is pretty close to how my parents kept chickens in the 50’s and 60’s. The only difference is that they only kept one or two roosters with the flock, not the bunch you do. They hardly ever lost any to predators, but every few years a fox or something would show up and have to be dealt with. I used to free range like that here, but I’m evidently in that zone where people like to dump dogs off in the country. Of course they come around and slaughter chickens when I’m gone. I finally went to electric netting because of the dogs being dumped, not the “wild” predators. The wild ones didn’t present much of a problem. I lost two hens to them over a three year span. I can live with that.

I’ve had flocks with one rooster. I’ve had flocks with three roosters. I really don’t see that much difference in flock behavior whether it is one rooster or three. They are flock animals. If given room, they can get along. But maybe that is to be expected. I eat any, male or female, that are behavioral problems. Those are not allowed to breed.

 

[GarthRyan]

None taken, ridgerunner. I can understand how that you might think I'm ignorant in the terms of chicken mating but I was surprised to find out for myself 9 months ago with my first batch of chickens that that was how chicken sex was done but i knew it was a natural thing for them and that it was no big deal. But this particular rooster has some major hormones, he just couldn't get enough.

And that's crazy how that woman owns chickens herself but didn't know that was how it's done. Maybe she just didn't like that it was a random rooster. Who knows, but everything is sorted out on here now and Mr. rooster is getting turned loose tomorrow. I didn't want him to be out in this cold of weather and not have friends to roost with to stay warm. It got down to about 10 last night and it's about 19 right now. It's supposed to start getting warmer though so he's going out.

 

[Duck77]

This is interesting. I also introduced a 6 mo old EE rooster to my hens. There was a 3 mo old RIR pullet he kept trying to go after instead of the hens. I separated them for awhile so he would go for the hens. He started out on a bantam and tore her head and neck up where I ended up caring for wounds on her. Then my 7 mo old Black Star hen beat him up good. Immediately after that beating my 7 mo old BO hen beat him down even harder. Blood and feathers were shed but after that he was gentle when mating and waited for the girls to squat down. I even caught him bringing the hens bits of food within the first week home. He also pecked me plenty the first couple days but I'd flip him on his back whenever he did and now he's completely tame towards me and my hens. I know I have read elsewhere on BYC of hens putting the roosters in line. I wonder if you have a couple good dominant hens that might take on that task. Hope it works out for you!

 

[GarthRyan]

That's the pecking order being established in your case. And nah my hens that were with him won't stand up for themselves because he's about twice the size of them even though they're the same age. And the hen that he beat up was even smaller than the others. He's just going to get turned loose because I can't have him killing my hens. I'm just hoping that he'll stick around and be insect control. I like him but he just can't be like that to my hen. I'm glad your girls could put yours in it's place.

 

[chooks4life]

@Ridgerunner:
Quote: LOL! Maybe she didn't have roosters so was unfamiliar with them? Or maybe her hens weren't familiar with roosters so they thought they were being killed and she panicked when they panicked? I've seen some hens think they're being attacked when a rooster tries to mate, always those who are descended from stock kept segregated by gender for generations.
Quote: Agree, behavioral problems ought not be bred on.

I spent quite a while explaining to the kids that it wasn't rape they were seeing, because initially they were quite distressed at all the goings on when first we got chooks.

In my experience, if a hen really, really doesn't want to mate, she simply will not. She won't move her tail feathers out of the way and the rooster can't do anything about it. This is a very rare thing to see, because it's a strong instinct to automatically physically cooperate with mating even if the chook's inexperienced and doesn't fully understand what's going on, as is also the case with some chooks lacking instinct. Mostly though a hen doesn't care too much about it, even if she complains as he pulls feathers or whatever. But plenty of hens complain a lot when mating, sometimes due to a rooster's clumsiness, sometimes due to a lack of instinct or experience on the hens' part (thinking she's being attacked) and sometimes due to irritation at his perseverance. Some I think complain merely out of habit, lol.

I've had hens who mounted roosters too, mated with them just like the hen was the rooster and the rooster the hen, and whaddaya know, the roosters complained bitterly just like many hens do, but also squatted just like hens and moved their tail feathers out of the way, and when she mated and dismounted they stood and shook their feathers just like a hen. It was just the same as normal roo-on-top mating.

But I've also had many more hens and roosters who very much had the mating thing figured out, knew what partners they preferred, and many of them never made a peep, the roosters didn't even hold on with their beaks, etc. I've seen "jump-over" matings where the roosters literally did not even stand on the hens, did not hold on with the beak, the only contact was cloacal, they just jumped over and mated in midair, in passing. Lazy, we joked. Or just very proficient. Takes a very willing and experienced hen for that, obviously. I had one hen who would spin around on the spot and sit whenever her favorite roo came running across the yard, long before he got there.

What I will not tolerate though is a rooster pushing suit, so to speak, on a hen who has let him know he's not welcome. I have culled 'no-means-yes' roosters out of the flock alongside those that bully ill or injured birds or babies, and in not one case was the bully bird ever a loss. Those that exhibited such behavioral issues were never great birds in the first place, not worth breeding.

I like to be able to rely on the fact that if one of my birds is injured or ill, it can continue life in the flock without me coming home to find it scalped or killed, for example. A rooster who pushes hens to mate when they're not keen is a rooster who's more likely to have accidents with his spurs (since she's not cooperating) or try to mate with a hen who is ill, injured, brooding, snuggling her babies, or even actually laying an egg as he tries to mate. I think for these reasons, that it is natural and a good trait for a rooster to cease attempts to mate if met with resistance. I've never had any roosters suffer for lack if you know what I mean, each hen is willing to mate multiple times per day, but when she's not, he should direct his attentions on a hen who is willing.

Those males who are stupid enough to mate with dead or dying birds, or babies, or human hands or feet, are too stupid to breed on, in my opinion. I did once get in a rooster whose offspring had a thing for hens on the nest. They plagued my hens as they tried to lay eggs, mating as the egg was emerging, and nearly killed a few by mating when the hen was in such a physically incapacitated condition; the hens got skeletal injuries from being jumped on as they were laying. I culled that out!

@GarthRyan:
Quote:
I read that the theory is that those males with higher aggression and lower fertility are perhaps that way because the testosterone etc is not being utilized properly by their systems. This sounds correct to me, as all the signs would seem to indicate it, but I'd need to check up on that.

My most "hormonal" rooster was also the least fertile. After three years of letting him mate freely I got a grand total of one living offspring out of him, and it wasn't a great one either, despite how good he looked. He would do multiple remounts and mates of the same hen in a minute. Shooting blanks it seems. He was also fairly aggressive to other roosters. My least aggressive males have always been the most fertile.
Quote: Some people have a veritable glitch in their brains regarding anything that's male but not neutered. These people treat males like aliens and are the ones who freak out about bulls, stallions, dogs, toms, roosters, anything male, and if they breed animals they generally breed some of the worst males. Sounds like a harsh judgment but really anyone who treats an animal with fear and mild hysteria just because of its gender is not likely to make any wise choices about what a good or bad male is. Some people have bought into the more ignorant gender myths so heavily they only keep females and have no idea how to handle a male. I suspect that woman was possibly one of them.

@Duck77:
Quote: That's why I raise my birds in natural family situations, or as close to it as domestication allows, because a rooster who's been raised by his mother tends to not be disrespectful to hens, in my experience anyway.