Please help sex my peafowl!

[TXPeacockLady]

Hello,
I've been searching the net for months now trying to determine if my peafowl are males or females and honestly I just can't tell. I started out with 2 India Blues and 2 Black Shoulder, unfortunately snakes got one of each breed back in August, I figure it would have been easier to tell if had still had the other two to compare.
They are now both about 12-13 weeks old, I'm pretty sure the black shoulder is a peahen as she/he has no color what so ever popping up, where as my India Blue has coloring coming up all over his/her head and neck, in certain light the color is very blue and in other light its very green, I guess that's what's making it so hard to tell. Here are some pictures so please tell me what yall think. Any help or advise is appreciated!
Thanks




Looks green here...


Looks blue here...


Sand Bathing...

 

[Arbor]

Next, I've seen it opined here on BYC (and maybe elsewhere? Having a senior moment...) that peach results (or resulted from) a cross of purple and cameo.  But I don't know if that has been verified, or is just a thought????

Basically, it has been proven. If you breed a peach male to a cameo hen, you end up with peach hens and cameo males (these males are then split to peach). The same would apply if you used a purple hen, but would end up with purple males. If you had a purple (or cameo) male bred to a peach hen, you should end up with similar results -purple (or cameo) males split peach and hens the colour of the father.

So to what extent, if any, are purple, peach and cameo alleles, or carried in related places on the sex chromosomes?  What happens when peaches, purples and cameos are interbred?  If peach really is a result of purple crossed with cameo, can it be uncrossed?  Can a peach throw purple and cameo chicks, or only peach?  Was peach a "one time" mutation, or is it something that requires having a purple gene plus a cameo gene?  Are any of them recessive to another?  Alleles?  Can a male be peach split purple or purple split peach?  Can a male have two purple genes and two peach genes?  And two cameo genes?

My answer to your previous paragraph contains some of the answers you asked in this one. I believe in theory, a peach could throw a purple or cameo (likely hens, unless bred to a purple or cameo). I've not heard of it yet, but that doesn't mean it hasn't. From all the origin stories I've heard, peach occurred twice at opposite ends of the US, so that being said, it could very well occur again. My question is how many times will we have to breed violetta to purple, peach or cameo to get another combo? When I finally get some violetta, that will be one of my breeding goals, but it will be purely based on luck!

 

[zazouse]

Girls do fan but if you get a young one that fans all the time you got a boy at lesst that is how mine have turned out, not sayen all boys fan but when they fan alot they have been boys here.

 

[Garden Peas]

She Looks like a black shouldered chick in this photo.

I completely agree. Except

...



As you can see from the silhouettes in this one, there are actually FOUR birds in the photo.

But you can't see them very well in the second photo:



But you can see them way better now:



(Who knew this newfangled computer could do that???

)

So based on the photo and the history provided so far, I'm guessing that cute black shouldered chick bringing up the rear of the line was one of the snake dinner pair

And also one of the front two birds had a too-close encounter with the snake. Leaving the mystery cocoa-colored bird (third in line) and one of the first two.

 

[zazouse]

At a year of age the spurs on the hens are small and the males are thicker,bigger and more to a point with kinda a curve to it. can you post photos of them?
I have a hen here with just one spur.
Do you know what your cameos came from parent wise? like if the momma was a IB and dad was a cameo ,all cameos off spring would be hens and all IB's would be boys

 

[new 2 pfowl]

This not my department, but it seems that if you are seeing actually purple-colored feathers, than your baby is likely to be a boy - the purple gals stay mostly light rusty browns. The purple people will be able to tell you more!

 

[zazouse]

This photo is of hens photo is from UPA

 

[Garden Peas]

I bought these eggs at auction - only one hatched. The male in the pen was a silver pied peach. The females were pied, silver pied, white, and white eyed. She said what she had hatch out of the pen earlier in the year were pied, white, peach, white eyes, silver pied, and India blue.

That's tough, I just got a little hen that was either Cameo Pied or Peach Pied and the general consensus on here was that she is a Peach Pied. Yours and mine look very similar in coloring. Peach is a Sex-Linked color, which means the only Peaches coming out of that pen should be females. And there shouldn't be any Cameos I don't think. However, your bird looks male to me as well, can you post pics of the chest feathers and maybe on looking down on it's back se we can look for striping on the back and wings?

So I took some pics with the flash. Maybe there is some orangey coming in.... I can see if with my eyes too which is why I took different pics.

Hmmm, definitely way beyond my level, not an expert, but wondering a couple of things... The birds in the pen where the eggs were laid included a silver pied peach male (so all offspring should have gotten a "peach" gene from dad, and all the hen chicks should have shown as "peach"), and various hens that were white, pied, silver pied and white eyed...

Do we know what the base color was of any of the hens? As in pied what? IB? Peach? Some other color? If there was a peach pied hen or a peach silver pied hen, there could be male peach chicks also, right? Or if the white hen was carrying a concealed peach gene? Or maybe there was a cameo hen?

Also, now I'm totally speculating, but it's another question I've been wondering about for awhile, so maybe someone can 'splain this to me...

Couple of things... First, peach, purple and cameo are all sex-linked genes, that's a for sure. Second, white and pied genes are alleles, but we don't know for sure if any other genes are alleles, right?

Next, I've seen it opined here on BYC (and maybe elsewhere?

Having a senior moment...) that peach results (or resulted from) a cross of purple and cameo. But I don't know if that has been verified, or is just a thought????

So to what extent, if any, are purple, peach and cameo alleles, or carried in related places on the sex chromosomes? What happens when peaches, purples and cameos are interbred? If peach really is a result of purple crossed with cameo, can it be uncrossed? Can a peach throw purple and cameo chicks, or only peach? Was peach a "one time" mutation, or is it something that requires having a purple gene plus a cameo gene? Are any of them recessive to another? Alleles? Can a male be peach split purple or purple split peach? Can a male have two purple genes and two peach genes? And two cameo genes?

Okay, maybe these are all just stupid questions and I just should do more reading

But you gotta love the mystery of it all

 

[Arbor]

Arbor, do you have an opinion on startingover's bird? Sex and color, the first batch of pics looked very cameo to me, but on the second batch I could maybe see the peach color. I don't know if I'll ever be able to tell the 2 apart very well.

Hmm, post #67? I'd have to guess cameo hen, given the colour in the photos. The photos don't show all the required parts clearly. But I find that a pied bird tends to have more variation in feather colour, making it difficult to photograph a true-to-life colouring without a good camera.
As for sexing a bird when young, we've gotta find a better way than we do now...apart from guessing at photos or DNA sexing.

 

[Birdrain92]

I agree about the oyster shells for needed calcium. I also supplement all of my bird types with calcium while they are laying and sparingly when not. This may also be a wives tale but, I have heard that a lack of calcium can lead to feather plucking so I have always used it. Now, to be honest, it has not stopped all the plucking and probably never will but it gives me peace of mind and doesn't hurt them. If they dont need it they wont eat it. As for protein levels, (another heavily debated subject,

) I have always fed 28% crumbles during breeding season as well as my brood chicks and more whole grains in the winter. This has always worked for me so I dont fix it.

Gerald Barker

If birds are having a calcium deficiency they will not only pick the feathers but eat them. I give oyster shells to my peahens during breeding season, and when the peacock's molt. That way the calcium will go into the train for next year and will be strong, more uniform, and better quality. When I start seeing oyster shells not being eaten I stop giving it to them because obviously they don't need it. They eat when they need it and leave it when not needed. I'm always feeding the adults 22% protein. The chicks get a medicated 28% protein for 4-8 weeks. Grains during the winter can help a lot. Sometimes I will give cracked corn to them in the winter just to help get a little fat to help keep warm. My chickens will probably never need oyster shells. Calcium is a little bit on the higher side than I wish but it's not terribly high. My local feed store "switched" feeds. Still made by Nutrena but it's packaged by the feed store. They say it's the same as the previous but there's a difference. I've added more cracked corn to lower the calcium. Now I will only get 1 or 2 eggs rarely with a little bit of calcium deposits. My peahen eggs on the other hand are very smooth.

Original feed.

New feed. Notice the calcium is higher.