Question on Safe-Guard vs Aquasol product info

[NestingMillenial]

I am looking at Safeguard right now and I have some questions when I compare the dosage often given here and the ones for Aquasol (the approved version for chickens)

Aquasol is 200mg fenbendazole/ml of product (20%)
-> recommendations from the product bulletin and the US National Lib. of Med. both say 0.454mg of fenbendazole/lb of BW (aggregated across the flock, so I suppose we have to assume bigger chickens will drink more) for 5 days
-> at 20%, this would be 0.00227mL of product/lb, which might be a challenge to administer on small flocks
-> this is approved with no withdrawal period for eggs

SafeGuard goat is 10% = 100mg of fenbendazole/ml of product
-> recommendations I have seen most often here say 0.23ml of product/lb of BW
-> at 10%, this is 23mg fenbendazole/lb of BW
-> I often see a 15 days egg withdrawal period being recommended

It's not a small difference!! Can we really treat with that little over 5 days? Could I just give a smaller amount of the goat 10% product and enjoy no egg withdrawal? What am I missing, this seems too good to be true!

Edit: I am seeing on the EU Medicines Agency that there is no egg withdrawal recommendation for Aquasol even when used at twice that dosage (=1mg of fenbendazole/lb, which would amount to 0.01ml of SafeGuard 10% /lb of BW to get that dosage)

 

[Kiki]

These two products are made by the same company.
There are a lot of people that use the goat or horse version and do not comply with an egg withdrawal.

It's a personal choice that only you can choose.

 

[NestingMillenial]

I get it, but assuming the dosage difference might make a difference in what gets into the egg, what I am mostly asking here is can I treat efficiently with way less fenbendazole/lb of body weight and still expect it to be efficient?

Like am I missing something in terms of the composition (or anything really) of those two products that would justify that the SafeGuard version (at 10%) needs to be administered at a dosage so much higher than Aquasol (23mg of fenbendazole/lb of bird instead of 0.5to1mg of fenbendazole/lb of bird)?

 

[Kiki]

Wh

I get it, but assuming the dosage difference might make a difference in what gets into the egg, what I am mostly asking here is can I treat efficiently with way less fenbendazole/lb of body weight and still expect it to be efficient?

Like am I missing something in terms of the composition (or anything really) of those two products that would justify that the SafeGuard version (at 10%) needs to be administered at a dosage so much higher than Aquasol (23mg of fenbendazole/lb of bird instead of 0.5to1mg of fenbendazole/lb of bird)?

What worms are you trying to treat?

 

[NestingMillenial]

What worms are you trying to treat?

I have unfortunately been unable to find a vet accepting to do a fecal float for me, so I'm going for broad spectrum.

Citing from the EU Medicines Agency: "For chickens, Panacur AquaSol is added to their drinking water in a quantity that aims to supply each chicken 1 mg fenbendazole per kg bodyweight daily for treating Ascaridia galli and Heterakis gallinarum and 2 mg fenbendazole per kg bodyweight daily for Capillaria infections. In both cases, treatment is for five consecutive days." -> so technically it has not been tested for other worms than those 3 yet I suppose. Would it be possible that the other worms are the reason why SafeGuard is usually used at higher dosage?

Edit: I found another study (ctrl+f "aquasol" or go to page 207)
"Dosages greater than 1 mg/kg BW or for durations exceeding five days did not significantly improve efficacy. Thus, 1 mg FBZ/kg BW/day for five days represents the cost-effective recommended dosage for Safe-Guard AquaSol, providing high and consistent efficacy against A. galli and H. gallinarum parasites."

 

[NestingMillenial]

Also, horses, goats and cows should all receive 2.3mg of fenbendazole/lb of body weight... (so 0.023ml of the 10% product / lb of body weight)... why are chickens at 10 times this dosage? Did we just come up with this to be safe and make sure we kill it all in there, or is there another reason why they should be given that much?

sources:
Horse and cows: https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?setid=391b94ab-535c-4a8c-94d1-d3c5de11f81b
Goats: https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?setid=89567dad-e2d5-4b7b-9e6e-c35668c3c2fa

 

[Eggcessive]

@casportpony, can you answer these questions? As far as I know the Aquasol dosage or low dose will not treat the more serious worms such as capillary worms or gapeworms. Chickens sometimes require a higher dosage of some drugs than say cattle or whatever. Amoxicillin is one drug like that. The human dosage is about the same as chickens.

 

[Kiki]

I have unfortunately been unable to find a vet accepting to do a fecal float for me, so I'm going for broad spectrum.

Citing from the EU Medicines Agency: "For chickens, Panacur AquaSol is added to their drinking water in a quantity that aims to supply each chicken 1 mg fenbendazole per kg bodyweight daily for treating Ascaridia galli and Heterakis gallinarum and 2 mg fenbendazole per kg bodyweight daily for Capillaria infections. In both cases, treatment is for five consecutive days." -> so technically it has not been tested for other worms than those 3 yet I suppose. Would it be possible that the other worms are the reason why SafeGuard is usually used at higher dosage?

I just noticed that you are in Texas.
There are no vets in my area that will see or treat a chicken but my dog vet will test chicken poo if I bring it in to him.

Our state lab will test to poop for you too.
https://tvmdl.tamu.edu/become-client/


If you want to treat your flock for common worms, go with the goat paste and be done with it.
I think you might be over thinking this.

 

[NestingMillenial]

Interesting!
The European bulleting I linked says that "A further field study involved chickens bred for laying and broiler breeders (chickens producing parent stock for chickens bred for meat), infected with Capillaria worms. Panacur AquaSol treatment at 2 mg/kg for 5 days reduced worm counts by 100%." but I did not find mention of the gapeworms anywhere, so I have no idea for those!

 

[Kiki]

Interesting!
The European bulleting I linked says that "A further field study involved chickens bred for laying and broiler breeders (chickens producing parent stock for chickens bred for meat), infected with Capillaria worms. Panacur AquaSol treatment at 2 mg/kg for 5 days reduced worm counts by 100%." but I did not find mention of the gapeworms anywhere, so I have no idea for those!