Question on Safe-Guard vs Aquasol product info

[NestingMillenial]

If you give hens the 1 mg/kg dose, the fenbendazole residue in the eggs does not exceed the max fenbendazole residue allowed. However, other worms, like capillary worms, need more aggressive treatment, and with those amounts, there is too much fenbendazole residue in the eggs.

Does that make sense?

It does, but with a little bit of qualification: the EU Medicines Agency finds the eggs still safe to eat with no withdrawal when using 2mg fenbendazole/lb of bodyweight, which is seen to 100% get rid of capillary worms in 5 days.

So while it makes sense, it would have to be for other worms: is that still holding? (I wonder whether those newer studies (the report cited earlier is from 2016 for example) might mean that we could update our recommendations or if we should still assume that other worms like maybe gapeworms like Eggcessive mentioned, still necessitate a higher dose)

 

[casportpony]

using 2mg fenbendazole/lb of bodyweight, which is seen to 100% get rid of capillary worms in 5 days.

Where is this study?

 

[NestingMillenial]

The studies I have seen show much higher doses for capillary worms, and the Aquasol literature says it's contraindicated for capillary worms at the labeled dose.

Sorry, my message crossed that last one!

Where is this study?

It was cited by the EU Medicines Agency: https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/overview/panacur-aquasol-epar-summary-public_en.pdf
Let me see if I find the original paper too!

Where did you see the recommendation against capillary worms?

 

[NestingMillenial]

Actually I found the paper where they decided to roll back the recommendation against it that you mentioned and add the recommendation for it instead:
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/docume...-0015-epar-assessment-report-variation_en.pdf

"Two dose finding studies of appropriate design and of sufficient quality performed using birds with infections with Capillaria spp. were included in the original submission for application in chickens. It could be concluded that both treatment dose and treatment duration had an effect on efficacy and that Capillaria spp. were dose-limiting. The results indicate that the approved treatment of 1 mg/kg bw/day for 5 days is not effective against Capillaria spp., whereas the newly proposed dose of 2 mg/kg bw/day for 5 days was effective in both studies"

(EMA is the European FDA, just to be clear
for source: https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/animal-health-literacy/look-european-medicines-agency)

 

[casportpony]

Where did you see the recommendation against capillary worms?

 

[NestingMillenial]

So that's exactly the part they retracted with the new approved dosage, in the link I gave above! I am still not finding the source studies, but this is the European FDA basically, so I would be inclined to accept them as the source in itself. I'm still gonna look though, if I can find the original ones.

But meanwhile, assuming this holds, are we thinking that earns us an update in the dosage we were using until now or are we still thinking that other worms like gapeworms would not respond to this and that's why the 23mg/lb of bird dosage should remain?

 

[casportpony]

The gapeworm dose does not need to be that high.

This is what one of my books say:

 

[Kiki]

So that's exactly the part they retracted with the new approved dosage, in the link I gave above! I am still not finding the source studies, but this is the European FDA basically, so I would be inclined to accept them as the source in itself. I'm still gonna look though, if I can find the original ones.

But meanwhile, assuming this holds, are we thinking that earns us an update in the dosage we were using until now or are we still thinking that other worms like gapeworms would not respond to this and that's why the 23mg/lb of bird dosage should remain?

It's .23 Not 23.

 

[NestingMillenial]

The gapeworm dose does not need to be that high.

This is what one of my books say:

After you mentioned it, I looked for and found several other peer reviewed studies that were also mentioning higher dosage, like your reference book here (thanks for the pictures with the other molecules dosages btw, I'm saving that for future wormer rotation!!) - I have no doubts those work too, but I was wondering if those newer studies might warrant an update (like higher doses do work and don't have toxicity on the chicken, but they get into the egg, while lower doses don't... so if they happen to be enough, I would love that update!)

 

[NestingMillenial]

It's .23 Not 23.

0.23ml of a 10% solution = 100mg per 100ml, so 23mg are in 0.23ml!

I know, it's making my head spin too... so many cross multiplications T_T