Sulmtalers Thread

[Extra Java]

"Duckwing Sulmtaler" is actually red enhanced silver wheaten like the Faverolle. AKA "Salmon." Which is what the Sulmtaler Club members have decided to refer to them as...Salmon Sulmtaler. What anyone else decides to call them is thier business.

The red wheaten produces a smooth looking, well blended color on the hens, the males hackles will be solid red.
The gold wheaten produces a male with gold in the hackles and a fire like saddle however, the hens will be splotchy.

Wheaten is also an e-allele like "duckling" which is where the confusion happens.

You can read more at: http://javahillfarm.com/JHF/Articles_files/Sulmtaler Condition.pdf
Written by Sigi with reference photos and translated in English.

I'm breeding for red wheaten and eliminating gold wheaten from my flock.

 

[DCchicken]

As a member of the Sulmtaler Club, I am going to use the colors that are part of the standard in Austria. So I am breeding three colors: gold wheaten(red), blue wheaten, and silver wheaten. To answer the original question, if you breed the silver wheaten to the gold wheaten(red), you will get a mix of each color but probably will not be able to sort them out until they feather out.

 

[Extra Java]

I have also seen Pyle Sulmtaler.
Pyle is silver expressing itself & enhanced with autosomal red.

 

[Extra Java]

I'm considering buying hatching eggs from Widget Creek, but I want to breed and their birds are all the same bloodline. If I buy some of the duck-wing color from GreenFire and I breed them to the Widget line, will they turn out some duck-wing and some standard coloring or will the roos just be a hot mess, color wise?? ....hens look about the same.

Some say it's ok to combine these colors, while others say the "Silver Duckwing" is one of the most difficult colors to work with. Might want to check out Master Breeder - Bob Clark's method of breeding Silver Duckwings. He strongly recommended double matings:

"Clark believed that the inherent problems of the SDW were enough to force breeders to use the method used by Hamburg, Wyandotte, Leghorn and other breed enthusiasts facing tough genetic concerns. He strongly advocated breeding females from one mating and males from another.

Clark argued that with SDWs one could, after a period of careful breeding, produce a male "strain" and a female "strain" both of which would be much more efficient that the traditional single mating (where both males and females are sought from the same pen or breeding. More efficient in that males bred from a male line would show their color (adult) sooner and would be more consistent. While females have been the same level of problem, double mating for females would produce better females and actually require fewer to be hatched from female matings.

Clark pointed out that the females from "male matings" (sometimes called "Cockerel matings") could be useful in breeding next season's cockerels and that the "female matings" (often called "pullet matings") could be headed by the best "pullet-bred" males...."

---I've only hatched and grown out a few hundred Sulmtaler but I'm beginning to see the reasoning behind Clark's method.

Also might want to research Brian Reeder's observation of the "Ap" gene on the Salmon Faverole as well.

I don't recommend mixing and sorting through these 2 colors because they are genotypical different each with it's own set of challenges.

 

[Arielle]

I'm considering buying hatching eggs from Widget Creek, but I want to breed and their birds are all the same bloodline. If I buy some of the duck-wing color from GreenFire and I breed them to the Widget line, will they turn out some duck-wing and some standard coloring or will the roos just be a hot mess, color wise?? ....hens look about the same.

On the Heritage thread the general premise is that each person has a breeding program based on one variety of chicken. Every few years "new" blood is brought into the flock by selecting a good rooster from another person with the same variety and adds that to the mix. While the birds have all started out from the same origin, in the hands of a specific breeder, at a particular "farm" , with its own environment and climate, each group of birds experiences some genetic drift. THe result is a bit of heterosis when the new blood is added even though they originated from the same flock.

This is my plan for breeding my SUlmtalers.

( Thank you BOb, KISS)

 

[DCchicken]

As I have all of the wheaten colors (gold, blue, and silver) I do plan on breeding them together and keeping them separate. Generally with wheaten colors you can mix them together and be ok. However, if you wish to specifically separate the colors after the hatch, it's probably going to be difficult to do so as chicks. So if you plan on selling them it would be difficult to tell a client that the chick they are buying is of a certain color unless you keep the colors in separate pens.

Right now I work with over 15 different breeds. So it is easy for me to keep them all separate. But unless you have a lot of patience and pens, I would probably just stick with one color and breed that. If you feel that you flock needs diversity at some point, you can always do an egg exchange with another breeder.

 

[jeremy]

Y'all do know that they aren't Silver Duckwing, but actually Silver (and Golden) Wheaten, right?

So technically, you can keep Wheaten, BW and Silver Wheaten together with no harm done. You'll just have to separate the varieties when you're hoping to hatch specific colors.

 

[Extra Java]

Yes, gold wheaten but there are also RED wheaten which is adding to the confusion...

 

[DCchicken]

Oh oooh. This is going to turn into another "cream" debate just like what happened with the Cream Legbars.

 

[Extra Java]

What I think....

Male wheatens have 2 copies of gold. Salmon males have two copies of silver, but they also have Mh and Ar ? that shows up in the wings & shoulders.
Brian Reeder's observation of the Ap gene on salmons is also interesting.

I'm interested in sorting these genetics out so if anyone can shed a ray of light it would help this breed get off to a good start!

The males are easier to sift through than the females especially the splotchy golds. Red females look best.

Only a male can be salmon, and it must be S/s+. s+/s^al will not make the Golden duckwing phenotype, although it is only one copy of gold.
And to add to the confusion...not all S/s+ males will look Golden Duckwing/salmon.

So are the reds simply more enhanced or are they different?...