I've seen you've had various answers, and I'd like to add my advice, please. I've cut and pasted your first text and am answering each point one at a time - so if this sounds a bit non-personal, I'm just trying not to forget anything.
So please forgive.
OK here we go (you're in << >>)
<<We bought about a dozen chicks at a swap. We had approx. 40 delivered from McMurray's - rare breeds, etc. We mixed them.>>
There's the problem that started this all - a mistake that probably most of us here have made. First, swap chickens. You don't know where these chickens are from, if they're from a pullorum/typhoid tested flock, or anything. They're just cute. Who can resist them? But really it's best to buy from a certified professional dealer who tests within the guidelines of the NPIP program.
<<On Day 1 they started to die. Day 2 they were dropping like flies. McMurray's suspected the problem was that I was using alfalfa. They credited a refund for the dead ones within the time period. Unfortunately none of my swap chicks died, just McMurray's. We lost 13 the first few days. We gave them antibiotics and they stopped dying.>>
McMurray does - they also vaccinate. The swap chickens are very very unlikely to vaccinate. Swap chickens are also likely exposed to someone's personal flock with all that they carry. You exposed the McMurray's chicks to that other person's flock's diseases - and you lost some. The antibiotics (what did you use?) stopped an illness. But now your birds are all carriers of something. If you're not showing/selling and are just keeping them for pets, that's not necessarily too bad. it just happens.
<<Fast forward about 4-5 weeks. In our older broiler chicks we've been seeing some blood in the stool, but they had been out free ranging and had gotten some black oil sunflower seeds from the bunnies. >>
If they're able to get into the bunny droppings, likely they also picked up something else. Including worms if you have earthworms under the cages as many rabbit breeders do. I'd suspect coccidiosis or a bacterial enteritis which can ALSO cause bleeding. Black oil sunflower seeds on their own wouldn't cause this. They're commonly used in show birds to impart good condition and sheen to feathers.
<< The little laying breeds had NOT been free ranging. We were a little concerned that they had cocciodosis and they aren't putting on weight as fast as they should.>> Coccidiosis has little to do with weight. Worms do, diet does, unthriftiness from about 1,000 causes does. Talk to us please about your feeding program for each age group.
<< We lost two of those. They went down first, and the next day died. We've not seen ANY blood in the laying breeds poo nor is it loose, it's normal. But we're losing them. A LOT of them.>>
You'll also need to make sure that they don't have mites, lice, etc. Those will cause a bird to be underweight and anemic and quickly die. As will worms - when did you last worm, and with what? Since they're showing no other symptoms other than unthriftiness and weight problems, I'd suspect something other than cocci. I'd also boost their immunity - see that later in this post.
<< We've lost another dozen at the rate of 1-2 a day and we are down, from the beginning of about 50+ chicks to about 16. I've never lost this many chicks in my life. They've received electrolytes and they've received antibiotics. WTHeck is this?>>
OK, how much electrolytes? What brand? And what antibiotics, exactly? this might be part of the situation. Also please tell us exactly how your brooders are set up. Incidentally, viral illnesses will not at all be effected by antibiotics. I would definitely consider taking a sick or deceased chick to your vet for testing to avoid losing your whole flock. **I mean this very sincerely** If you decide deceased, PM me before you do it an dI can tell you what the vet needs you to do with the body.
<<I'm at a loss. I'd just write off the rest, they're almost entirely only swap chicks left at this point, the McMurray ones are pretty much all dead with the exception of about 4. BUT I have laying stock coming next week.>>
OK, also VERY IMPORTANT: if you can put this off, please do. If you cannot, you absolutely must have these birds in different places. You must do the healthy chickens first. They must not have any access to one another including your free roaming chickens, pets, your shoes and clothes, etc. Do the healing birds last and then wash your clothes. use a different set of shoes between flocks.
<<I have rare breed laying stock coming in to the tune of almost $200 worth and I'm deathly afraid they're going to get whatever this is. I'm seriously considering killing all of them, burning them, and bleaching everything. >> Depressing, but it depends on where your priorities are. I'd have them tested first, immediately.
<<Suggestions would be appreciated more than you know.>>
OK immunity boosting. it's important that all the birds you have are receiving the very best nutrition, hydration, and have immunity boosting. I'd give them ALL probiotics, even the babies. The babies because they'll need them as they're young. The layers because they're underweight with no yet determined cause and probiotics will help them gain weight and use all of their food more efficiently. The free rangers because they've had blood in their poop and are exposed to everything, including rabbits and your foot tracks.
Yogurt (plain), acidophilus tablets/capsules from the grocery/pharmacy/health food store, or livestock aimed probiotics from the feedstore. Whatever you choose, read the label - they must not only list "by products", they must also contain live colonies of bacteria. At least acidophilus, B. bifidum is a good bacteria to include. Yeast cultures are also helpful in addition to bacteria. They'll have complicated names. For example, Probios powder (livestock, feedstore) reads like this:
"Lactic Acid Bacteria not less than 50 Million CFU". CFU = Colony Forming Units = living bacteria. It also has byproducts in it (from the living bacteria), the label saying "Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product" etc. Yogurt will simply say "contains live cultures".
Food: all your birds should be (and probably are) eating age-appropriate foods. make sure the babies are all on medicated (with amprolium nothing else) foods. If you are doing organic, I'd stop organic until this is done. If you're using electrolytes, this could be part of the problem. I'd stop doing it and give them fresh water instead. There have been babies lost to this this year, and electrolytes and other packaged vitamins CAN go bad.
Medicating: For anything with droppings that are loose at this point, I'd use Sulmet. I don't like to medicate until you HAVE to, but if your'e seeing blood you have to. The reason I'm saying Sulmet in this case is that it's both an antibiotic and an coccidiocide. That means it will not only kill the cocci that cause coccidiosis (protazoa), but also E. coli bacteria. Corid is wonderful if you're sure the babies only have cocci - as it's just concentrated amprolium. But in adults free ranging with other animals, I keep Sulmet around.
More medicating: again, please, what antibiotic are you using/did you use? This will help us see what it's killing (thus the birds living) and thus what might be the problem.
OK so a summary:
First, I'm absolutely devestated by your loss and the fear you have for your upcoming birds. I feel very personally effected by it, which is why i wrote this novel.
Second, treat everyone with probiotics to help boost their immunity. Make sure their food is fresh, good turnover at the feedstore, and that their water is clean.
Third, use caution when going between flocks.
Fourth: please get a baby tested for your peace of mind. that will answer your question as to whether or not to cull.
Fifth: please humor me and tell me again about your brooder: bedding, feed, temperature control, etc.
Sixth - please take the time to answer the questions and consider my post in its entirety. I chose everything I said to you today jsut for you and your situation, although most things do apply to many situations. I really want to help you find a solution.
My prayers are with you in the mean time. Thank you for reading this 'novel'. /blush
OK here we go (you're in << >>)
<<We bought about a dozen chicks at a swap. We had approx. 40 delivered from McMurray's - rare breeds, etc. We mixed them.>>
There's the problem that started this all - a mistake that probably most of us here have made. First, swap chickens. You don't know where these chickens are from, if they're from a pullorum/typhoid tested flock, or anything. They're just cute. Who can resist them? But really it's best to buy from a certified professional dealer who tests within the guidelines of the NPIP program.
<<On Day 1 they started to die. Day 2 they were dropping like flies. McMurray's suspected the problem was that I was using alfalfa. They credited a refund for the dead ones within the time period. Unfortunately none of my swap chicks died, just McMurray's. We lost 13 the first few days. We gave them antibiotics and they stopped dying.>>
McMurray does - they also vaccinate. The swap chickens are very very unlikely to vaccinate. Swap chickens are also likely exposed to someone's personal flock with all that they carry. You exposed the McMurray's chicks to that other person's flock's diseases - and you lost some. The antibiotics (what did you use?) stopped an illness. But now your birds are all carriers of something. If you're not showing/selling and are just keeping them for pets, that's not necessarily too bad. it just happens.
<<Fast forward about 4-5 weeks. In our older broiler chicks we've been seeing some blood in the stool, but they had been out free ranging and had gotten some black oil sunflower seeds from the bunnies. >>
If they're able to get into the bunny droppings, likely they also picked up something else. Including worms if you have earthworms under the cages as many rabbit breeders do. I'd suspect coccidiosis or a bacterial enteritis which can ALSO cause bleeding. Black oil sunflower seeds on their own wouldn't cause this. They're commonly used in show birds to impart good condition and sheen to feathers.
<< The little laying breeds had NOT been free ranging. We were a little concerned that they had cocciodosis and they aren't putting on weight as fast as they should.>> Coccidiosis has little to do with weight. Worms do, diet does, unthriftiness from about 1,000 causes does. Talk to us please about your feeding program for each age group.
<< We lost two of those. They went down first, and the next day died. We've not seen ANY blood in the laying breeds poo nor is it loose, it's normal. But we're losing them. A LOT of them.>>
You'll also need to make sure that they don't have mites, lice, etc. Those will cause a bird to be underweight and anemic and quickly die. As will worms - when did you last worm, and with what? Since they're showing no other symptoms other than unthriftiness and weight problems, I'd suspect something other than cocci. I'd also boost their immunity - see that later in this post.
<< We've lost another dozen at the rate of 1-2 a day and we are down, from the beginning of about 50+ chicks to about 16. I've never lost this many chicks in my life. They've received electrolytes and they've received antibiotics. WTHeck is this?>>
OK, how much electrolytes? What brand? And what antibiotics, exactly? this might be part of the situation. Also please tell us exactly how your brooders are set up. Incidentally, viral illnesses will not at all be effected by antibiotics. I would definitely consider taking a sick or deceased chick to your vet for testing to avoid losing your whole flock. **I mean this very sincerely** If you decide deceased, PM me before you do it an dI can tell you what the vet needs you to do with the body.
<<I'm at a loss. I'd just write off the rest, they're almost entirely only swap chicks left at this point, the McMurray ones are pretty much all dead with the exception of about 4. BUT I have laying stock coming next week.>>
OK, also VERY IMPORTANT: if you can put this off, please do. If you cannot, you absolutely must have these birds in different places. You must do the healthy chickens first. They must not have any access to one another including your free roaming chickens, pets, your shoes and clothes, etc. Do the healing birds last and then wash your clothes. use a different set of shoes between flocks.
<<I have rare breed laying stock coming in to the tune of almost $200 worth and I'm deathly afraid they're going to get whatever this is. I'm seriously considering killing all of them, burning them, and bleaching everything. >> Depressing, but it depends on where your priorities are. I'd have them tested first, immediately.
<<Suggestions would be appreciated more than you know.>>
OK immunity boosting. it's important that all the birds you have are receiving the very best nutrition, hydration, and have immunity boosting. I'd give them ALL probiotics, even the babies. The babies because they'll need them as they're young. The layers because they're underweight with no yet determined cause and probiotics will help them gain weight and use all of their food more efficiently. The free rangers because they've had blood in their poop and are exposed to everything, including rabbits and your foot tracks.
Yogurt (plain), acidophilus tablets/capsules from the grocery/pharmacy/health food store, or livestock aimed probiotics from the feedstore. Whatever you choose, read the label - they must not only list "by products", they must also contain live colonies of bacteria. At least acidophilus, B. bifidum is a good bacteria to include. Yeast cultures are also helpful in addition to bacteria. They'll have complicated names. For example, Probios powder (livestock, feedstore) reads like this:
"Lactic Acid Bacteria not less than 50 Million CFU". CFU = Colony Forming Units = living bacteria. It also has byproducts in it (from the living bacteria), the label saying "Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product" etc. Yogurt will simply say "contains live cultures".
Food: all your birds should be (and probably are) eating age-appropriate foods. make sure the babies are all on medicated (with amprolium nothing else) foods. If you are doing organic, I'd stop organic until this is done. If you're using electrolytes, this could be part of the problem. I'd stop doing it and give them fresh water instead. There have been babies lost to this this year, and electrolytes and other packaged vitamins CAN go bad.
Medicating: For anything with droppings that are loose at this point, I'd use Sulmet. I don't like to medicate until you HAVE to, but if your'e seeing blood you have to. The reason I'm saying Sulmet in this case is that it's both an antibiotic and an coccidiocide. That means it will not only kill the cocci that cause coccidiosis (protazoa), but also E. coli bacteria. Corid is wonderful if you're sure the babies only have cocci - as it's just concentrated amprolium. But in adults free ranging with other animals, I keep Sulmet around.
More medicating: again, please, what antibiotic are you using/did you use? This will help us see what it's killing (thus the birds living) and thus what might be the problem.
OK so a summary:
First, I'm absolutely devestated by your loss and the fear you have for your upcoming birds. I feel very personally effected by it, which is why i wrote this novel.
Second, treat everyone with probiotics to help boost their immunity. Make sure their food is fresh, good turnover at the feedstore, and that their water is clean.
Third, use caution when going between flocks.
Fourth: please get a baby tested for your peace of mind. that will answer your question as to whether or not to cull.
Fifth: please humor me and tell me again about your brooder: bedding, feed, temperature control, etc.
Sixth - please take the time to answer the questions and consider my post in its entirety. I chose everything I said to you today jsut for you and your situation, although most things do apply to many situations. I really want to help you find a solution.
My prayers are with you in the mean time. Thank you for reading this 'novel'. /blush
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