Baby chicks dying

[Jhogo]

Welcome To BYC

Can you please tell us the brand of medicated feed? You are in AU, so I think the medication in most chick starters there is Lasalocid Sodium, not Amprolium like it is here in the US.

While I don't think there are contraindications between the 2, I would not give Amprolium in addition to medicated feed that contains Lasalocid Sodium.

IF the feed you are feeding contains Amprol/Amprolium, then dosing with Amprolium shouldn't be a problem as long as you are giving the correct dosing and not giving extra vitamins that contain B1(Thiamine) during the course of treatment.

8 day old chicks, inside temps 70-77F. I think your brooder temps are probably o.k. if not a little warm under the lamp.

Yes, I would try to encourage drinking. I'd give fresh plain water. Try some wet mushy feed as well.

Thanks for the detailed and comsidered reply. The feed does indeed contain Lasalocid Sodium 100mg/kg as Avatec/Bovetec.

Below is the amprolium powder we were putting in the water for the first 3 days per instructions from the poultry shop and the vitamin solution we were giving them the last 2 days (they currently just have plain water).

I've since switched to Aus Organic Feeds chick grower crumble (as of this morning) and they seem to be eating that ok.

I've scrubbed out the name of the shop we got the chicks and feed from, as I don't want a witch hunt given that we have no idea what has gone wrong yet (not that I expect that from this forum, everyone has been so helpful so far!).

 

[Debbie292d]

You're right; no witch hunts here, but it's not something we'd need to know anyway.

But now you're done with the three days of amprolium, so I'd just go with either of the feeds you have and water. You can give them vitamins every other day or every few days to help them recoup the B1 they lost over those three days. Most chicks do fine just on their feed and fresh water. I'm hoping your remaining ones are doing better now!

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Thanks for the detailed and comsidered reply. The feed does indeed contain Lasalocid Sodium 100mg/kg as Avatec/Bovetec.

Below is the amprolium powder we were putting in the water for the first 3 days per instructions from the poultry shop and the vitamin solution we were giving them the last 2 days (they currently just have plain water).

I've since switched to Aus Organic Feeds chick grower crumble (as of this morning) and they seem to be eating that ok.

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I've scrubbed out the name of the shop we got the chicks and feed from, as I don't want a witch hunt given that we have no idea what has gone wrong yet (not that I expect that from this forum, everyone has been so helpful so far!).

Thank you for the information.

I did a bit of short reading/research and cannot find any contraindications between the Amprolium and Lasalocid Sodium, so I don't think this is the problem.

The vitamins look good, so if you gave those after Amprolium, then there shouldn't be an issue there either. Amprolium is a Thiamine blocker, so the drug manuals suggest not giving "excess" Thiamine when using Amprolium since it "may" make the drug "less effective" or "cancel it out", but they will not state what excess is (of course!), so we just err on the side of don't give any "extra Thiamine" during Amprolium treatment. Amprolium is mild and usually well tolerated, so I wouldn't think it's the problem. I've used it myself.

Lasalocid Sodium seems to be the standard Coccidiostat in most of the medicated chick feeds in AU, so I would expect the feed store to recommend that if giving medicated starter.

It can be very hard to know why chicks die and it's alarming when you lose a few like you have. I'm not quite sure what's happening, so the best you can do is what you are doing. Re-checking the temperature of the brooder and making adjustments along with offering a different feed.

They seem to be eating the new feed better, so perhaps they just were not eating enough of the other feed to thrive.

You mention pasty butt. In 8wk 8day olds, that's a little concerning, but it could be from stress of going to a new home. Other causes are a brooder is too hot or too cold (go figure!). So, keep the bums cleaned. If needed, apply a little coconut oil, vaseline or ointment to the vent to help keep the poop from sticking so much. When you clean them up, if you wet the bums (under warm running water), dry them well (use a hairdryer on low if possible) so they don't chill.

Hopefully with a few changes with the feed and adjusting the temps if necessary, they will all thrive. Take a deep breath, you've got this.

edited typo, see strike through.

 

[NatJ]

You mention pasty butt. In 8wk olds, that's a little concerning...

Typo in the age there (weeks vs. days), although I don't think it changes the point you were trying to make.

 

[Jhogo]

Thanks everyone for all the help! I switched to plain water and the new feed. Everyone is loving the new food! Can't get enough of it! Even the Araucana I'm worried about is eating plenty. It still isn't going over and drinking water from what I've seen though... We've been pulling it out and offering drops of water from a tiny pippet. It's not really interested, but will drink if you get the drop on the side of its beak. We're going to keep this up every couple of hours, and we're thinking we might set alarms every couple of hours through the night. Is this worth doing?

The Araucana is definitely way smaller, lighter and weaker than the houdans, I'm not sure if this is a breed thing, or if she's just quite far behind them after not doing so well for a few days. I realise she's generally a smaller breed.

Pic included just because they're cute.

 

[NatJ]

Everyone is loving the new food! Can't get enough of it! Even the Araucana I'm worried about is eating plenty.

I wonder if there is something about this feed that is easier for them to eat? Are the pieces any smaller?

Or maybe it just tastes better.

 

[Jhogo]

I have a sad update... The Araucana passed this morning after a steady decline overnight.

I've now contacted a poultry vet to visit the house to check on the setup, the remaining chicks and potentially carry out a necropsy/post mortem on the Araucana that passed last night.

We've now lost 5 of the 8 chicks, so I'm at a loss for what to do

The remaining 3 are a lot bigger and seem healthy and strong, though one is itching/scratching it's neck and shaking its head a lot at the moment. I'm hoping it's just the feathers coming through and not something more sinister. It seems to be eating, drinking, sleeping and pooping fine though.

 

[Jhogo]

I wonder if there is something about this feed that is easier for them to eat? Are the pieces any smaller?

Or maybe it just tastes better.

The pieces are definitely smaller, the new feed is a crumble and appears to be reconstituted from a mash I suspect. The previous feed just looks like wheat seeds.

 

[NatJ]

The pieces are definitely smaller, the new feed is a crumble and appears to be reconstituted from a mash I suspect. The previous feed just looks like wheat seeds.

I wonder, is there any chance the deaths were due to starvation? That could have happened if the feed was too big for the chicks to eat, especially if the smallest chicks fared the worst.

I've now contacted a poultry vet to visit the house to check on the setup, the remaining chicks and potentially carry out a necropsy/post mortem on the Araucana that passed last night.

I'll definitely be curious to hear what the vet thinks.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I have a sad update... The Araucana passed this morning after a steady decline overnight.

I've now contacted a poultry vet to visit the house to check on the setup, the remaining chicks and potentially carry out a necropsy/post mortem on the Araucana that passed last night.

We've now lost 5 of the 8 chicks, so I'm at a loss for what to do

The remaining 3 are a lot bigger and seem healthy and strong, though one is itching/scratching it's neck and shaking its head a lot at the moment. I'm hoping it's just the feathers coming through and not something more sinister. It seems to be eating, drinking, sleeping and pooping fine though.

I'm sorry that you lost the Araucana
Please do let us know what the Vet says, I would be interested to know what their thoughts are.

They are cute little things aren't they!

Typo in the age there (weeks vs. days), although I don't think it changes the point you were trying to make.

Thank you for pointing that out. I've corrected it. No, probably doesn't change the point this time, but wks vs. days can certainly make a difference sometimes.