Frizzle genes of this bird?

perryalana21404 said:

Anybody want to take a crack at what kinds of genes are involved (and the associated gene symbol) for this bird? I have some of the offspring in this picture and would like to play with some Punnett squares.

The rooster is a pure white silky which I've read is recessive white.
If true, why are so many of the chicks white?

In the frizzle hen, I see colombian influence on the head and tail, but what am I seeing in the body feathers?? The feathers have a very light, maybe white outer edge. Her bloomers seem to be mostly white or light as well. Is this (S)ilver? Is that why so many of the chicks are white?

All we know is that the hen is a frizzle cochin out of Princeton, MN. And she is not my bird so I only know as much as you can see.

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perryalana21404 said:

Here are some more screen captures of the hen and chicks for a better view. Hen looks like she might have white lacing on her back feathers.















Facts:
- about 50% of the chicks are white.
- None are black speckled (like the leaky dominant white.)
- Most of the whites have a gold blush on their breasts and wings. This is a faint, rolled in the dirt, kind of blush. It is so light I had to double check to make sure it wasn't dirt. It is not the black feather here and there as seen in leaky dominant white. You can kind of see this blush in the head down in the pics above.)
- The white birds are about 50% male 50% female
- The males (at least that I got from the hatch) are all non-black skinned, the females are all black skinned (in both white and non-white birds.)

Concerning the white silky rooster:

Q: Does the leakiness of dominant white show randomly or typically more with a homozygous or heterozygous state? (Does dom white have a double dosing effect so that hetero's are leaky and homo's strengthen up to a solid white or vice versa?) If I/I tends to be leaky while I/i is more solid white, then the white silky rooster could be carrying one dominant white and it would provide the 1:1 ratio we see in whites.
More likely to see leakage in a bird with only one copy of I, but you can see leakage in an II bird as well.

Q: Would the leaky dominant white be able to let the blush gold come through? If not, then we eliminate dominant white genes.

Yes; dominant white blocks most eumelanin, but not pheomelanin.

Q: Does (S)ilver produce an 'all white' bird or just change the color in a pattern like Gold vs Silver lacing. Considering Delaware chickens, silver birds can be mostly white... perhaps this is how the dirty blush gold is coming through?

Silver changes areas covered by gold to silver. In and of itself it cannot create a self-white bird; it needs considerable help from additional genes.

Q: Does epistatic recessive white completely block other colors and patterns? If so, then there could be NO dirty gold coming through. (or is there something else at play here?) Even if recessive white could allow the blush gold, it would require that the hen has a hidden recessive white allele (like Tim stated) to get our 1:1 ratio. If the blush gold would be blocked then we can eliminate recessive white as the primary white in the chicks.

Almost completely. An occasional feather or two may make it through with some colouring. I've never seen red or gold or patterns make it through on a recessive white bird.

The birds in the photos (other than the hen) are young enough that they almost certainly still have juvenile plumage. I wouldn't count on hte blush colour remaining. If it does, the birds are not recessive white, although they may have a single copy.

Concerning the hen:
I don't have my head wrapped around the birchens or wheatens or E modifiers or the I modifiers and pattern genes (and lots of other things!)
Looking at the hen, any guesses as to what genes she is displaying? Is there a 'standard' gene set for large cochins as a starting point?

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