1 round worm found in poop, must I deworm? I try to be organic

[Kiwibird]

Great thread!

Here are my ideas after reading.

The comment has been made that a wild hen doesn't need to be wormed because those that lack resistance will die, and that domesticated hens are quite different in their level of immunity (therefore needing worming). That may not apply everywhere. Here in New Zealand there are several places where there are wild populations of chooks, just because people have dumped them. They thrive. People dump more alongside, and they seem to thrive too.

Also, most of us here are just a generation or two off the farm (or never left it), and the equation about cost of vet bill versus cost of animal is in our bones. A vet visit costs as much as 2-3 point of lay pullets, depending on breed of chook. So most of us would cull rather than take our chook to the vet, if things look really bad. I can't get Ivomec in small quantities except as soluble, and I'm not super confident about pouring liquid down a chook's throat. Vet also laughs when you buy it if they know its for a chook. It is really not seen as the thing to do around here. Tiny bottle with short shelf life costs half as much as a point of lay pullet. Big bottle of pour on costs as much as 3-5 point of lay pullets. So you cull, or you have all-in all-out systems, or you toy with alternative approaches that are cheaper, and don't contain the scarier herbs (like hemlock).

Love birds on the other hand have never been farm animals, so I know people who are loud and proud about worming these. They feed them oiled seed for 24 hours before worming them to aid with the expulsion of the worm load. Anyone do that with chickens?

Also, my brother being 6'5", can talk freely to his vet about worming chooks without being laughed at to his face. His vet told him to just chuck a bit of sulphur in the feed (wet mash) and it will deal with ectoparasites like mites as well as endoparasites like worms. I have never read this anywhere. Is this fair dinkum? Anyone heard of that before? (Or is this the vet equivalent of laughing at you, but specially reserved for customers with imposing physique?)

 

[Kiwibird]

No comments on the sulphur in food for worms (and ectoparasites) idea then?

 

[chookchick]

Never heard of that--though it sounds interesting, one of the Old Timey methods of handling chickens...I have to comment on the price of ivermectin vs. price of POL pullet issue. Many, if not most of us here on BYC consider our chickens to be our "pets" and thus take on the responsibility of keeping them healthy for their entire life. A healthy hen can produce eggs for most, if not all, of her life. So if you can get a bottle of dewormer, perhaps share with others, to keep your flock laying well, it will pencil out--if that is what you care about. A lot of us do avoid vet visits, because of the expense, because they don't seem to know or care about chickens, or may even decline to treat them. That is why we are on this forum in the first place.

 

[KOTurkeyRanch]

Quote:
DE might not remove a very heavy infestation but if you use it when there isnt worms 9 times out of 10 you wont have a bad breakout of worms. If applied to the feed, the tiny diatoms cut the worms and kills them. Since its not chemical it doesnt need a rotation due to adaptation. DE is awesome!

 

[cocosandy]

I would suggest worming. I didnt have time to read the whole thread because Im digging out from no power and total destruction around here.
I started out "totally natural" and I lost alot of chickens that way. Think of it this way: if you use medicines, you have control of not eating the eggs or meat
while the medicine is withdrawing. Not to treat an infestation is not healthy for the chickens or you and whoever else eats your eggs.
One worm means there are millions....and RIP to the delicate birds I lost due to my stupidity and trying to be perfectly natural.

I suggest wazine first, wait a week and do something like pour on eprinex...and you may want to wait a week and do somethig like a wormazole. The worm them twice a year during the
molt. The first time you need to start with something more delicate, like wazine...even adding cayenne pepper to their food is good...but once youve seen a worm, you need to go through a huge round of worming, and wait to eat eggs for
a good 2 weeks.
There are no studies that prove the theory about the DE working internally and Ive come to the conclusion that DE is a great external substance, but that feeding it internally is pouring money down a hole.

also while youre doing this, I would suggest dusting your coop with poultry dust.
Ive never had mites till this year...and DE does work as a preventative and even kills them....but less so in the wet....I have had recurring mites for a few months even with poultry dust and eprinex repeated...and I was horrified to realize that my polish had an infestation in her
top hat....she was almost dead from the stress of a little infestation in her tail and a huge infestation deep in her top hat. Check your birds well and treat them if they need it.
Being perfectly natural is for the food that you dont have control over....what you buy at the market needs opt be raised naturally unless you know the person, because people who treat all the time and dont withhold their product are dangerous....people who rely on the income from their product are dangerous ...
You giving your birds medicines and not eating the eggs until its out of their system is safe and better all around. Why would you want worms taking the nutrients out of the bird? that translates to the eggs and meat....

Thats just my opinion, but honestly, unless you have some allergy to antibiotics or wormer that even a trace in an egg can make you sick, its a different issue.
Good luck!
Be sure to worm slowly. first time I wormed after years of thinking I was doing myself and the world a favor by not doing it, I lost some delicate young rare polish to die off and it was pathetic.

 

[Miss Lydia]

I bought pumpkin seeds but couldn't get the chickens to eat them. So I did end up buy vermXusa Hopefully it will keep them worm free, Plus I put ACV in their water.

 

[cocosandy]

you need to grind up the pumpkin seeds in a cusineart or blender, and actually, from what I hear, they have to be fresh from the pumpkin and fresh ground to have the chemical in them that paralyzes the worms.
I have also used green pumpkin seeds from the health food store, ground with alot of cayenne and buttermilk ....then after a few days to a week, I use wazine in the water for one day as the label suggests, and after a week I use wormazole liquid drops in the beak or pour on eprinex....
Ive found through trial and error and have concluded that the natural wormers are only preventatives...Ive also used vermex...and that twice a year standard worming during the molt is better for the birds.
Just throw the eggs away for a couple of weeks...
Natural is being able to control the use of the eggs and doing a slow worming so its easier on your birds...if you are trying to be totally organic then use alot of preventatives, but you may find that your birds are carrying big loads of worms...especially if they free range; if they become stressed by an overload of parasites then what good is any of it? They will stop laying and waste away.
Been there, done that, lost birds....all the while using preventatives and trying to be "natural" for the good of my birds.
Its not worth it for me....but its a personal choice.
DE in the feed is also a good preventative...but only a preventative....
The only real wormers are the chemical ones and most chemicals have their origins in natural substances....not sure about the wormers, but I cant say that I care too much, so long as I can withdraw eggs by my own choice for the time I need to feel comfortable that the medicine is gone from their systems.

 

[MyGardenHelper]

I raise ours with natural 'preventative' remedies. I do not give them western medicine unless needed as I prefer preventative so that they do not come down with illnesses). I would absoutly take them to a vet or put them on anti'biotics if all alse failed). I am not certified organic, but do put apple-cider vinegar and garlic from chicks on in their water. Alos kefer..especially home made is great for intestinal flora. Feed this from chicks on as well. Periodically mix home-grown dried oregeno in their feed as a worm 'preventative'...does not cure...but keeps them from being overloaded. Naturtiam is another preventaive....I give them the spent flowers and leaves. There are many things we can do as a preventative. Wild birds eat various herbs and plants to get what they need for disease prevention. Also wild birds will pick off yarrow leaves to put in their nest for external bug control...makes me want to put the leaves of yarrow in my nest boxes....watch the wildlife (it is soooo interesting) and learn and research.

 

[Beekissed]

Quote:
Like.....garlic?

Naturally occuring sulfur. I have used NuStock on leg mites when nothing else would work and it worked in one application. Ingredients: Sulfur, mineral oil and pine tar.

Been doing chickens off and on for around 33 years....never wormed a flock nor lost a bird to worm infestation or illness yet. I don't know where you all live that you have birds die from worms, but your problem may lie in the fact that you have birds that are not a hardy breed and you have them penned in moist situations. I free range, so I don't have birds walking around on their own feces day in and day out, so this may be the difference.

The all natural methods work well in flocks that are managed. If you just buy some interesting-looking chickens and put them in a pen, never kill them and just keep them for amusement and fun, then I can imagine one would run into problems.

But, if you observe your birds~ their overall wellbeing, gauge their ability to thrive, produce, forage and then cull the ones that don't appear to do the best on your setup, only have birds that are hardy to your climate and flock management style, then you don't run into these sickness/worm infestation problems.

For example, I culled all the Buff Orpingtons from my flock. They never laid consistently like I'd read they would, they had continual raw backs from squatting for the roos, gobbled feed at the trough each evening, and not a one went broody. Now, in my flock, I try to have hens that lay daily, or at least every other day if they are older, forage well and are thrifty on feed, maintain a good coat/feathering, and occasionally go broody to reproduce their genetics.

The Buffs had to go. I don't know if they had worms or if they would eventually turn up sick....all I had to know was that they were poor performers, poor foragers, and they never recovered their feathers on their backs after a moult replenish. These are birds that are not hardy, IMO. They are not survivors that will actually THRIVE on my setup. Yeah, they might have lived but how well? Having bare skin and putting on too much weight from grains does not a healthy bird make.

If I were like some flock owners, I would let sentiment get in the way of that decision, but I try to actually manage my flock. Not based on sentiment, but with sound judgement on the cost effectiveness of maintaining a working flock of chickens.

All natural methods work well if one combines their usage with sound flock management.

 

[HorizonSon]

Read most of this thread and it sounds like I am on the same page, and even paragraph, as you are beekissed

I have chickens for their eggs, meat and ability to make wonderful compost

I am moving in the direction of independence, NOT reliance, from this western industrialization that has been sweeping like a plague across the world.

Happy Flocking!