100% Urban Predator proof Chicken Run

[aart]

Quote: I've never used them in thick wall vessels....if I did I would cut threads first I think, especially hard materials like PVC.
The typical HDPE of 55 gal drums are fairly soft and may not need threads cut first.

Here's my take on installing HN's
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...ing-loaded-watering-nipples/210#post_14202676
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...ing-loaded-watering-nipples/330#post_14593735

 

[MeepBeep]

ALSO:  I like your design with the nipples on the barrel. it seems like that would be a pain to put those on, am I correct on this?

curious if @MeepBeep
  cut threads or not.

No problem putting them in at all, drilled and tapped (threaded) the holes and they screw right in and seal up with no problem... The side walls on a 55 gallon drum depending on where you drill can be 1/4" thick or more so IMO it's best to tap them vs forcing them as they will shear off if you force them...

For that barrel I used a 1/8 (NPT) tapered plumbing pipe tap as horizontal nipples have a unique proprietary thread, ideally a metric 10mm x 1.0 (tapered) would be ideal as that is the thread used on vertical nipples... But at the end of the day the difference between a 1/8" NPT and M10-1.0 (tapered) is insignificant in this application as they are nearly identical, and even in metal you can force fit between the two if push comes to shove...

You can pick up the taps for a few bucks on Ebay, you really don't need a tap handle if going into plastic, you can just use an adjustable wrench or locking pliers...

Or you can do what I did and just pick up a cheap tap/die set as it's one of those tools that if you have it you will likely eventually find uses for it...

This is the cheap set I have, it's all imperial screw size except for the single pipe tape, kind of ideal in this application...

http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/tap-die/40-pc-carbon-steel-sae-tap-and-die-set-63016.html

Only $15.99 or $12.79 with a 20% off coupon printed (or just download it to your phone and show the cashier) from this site, you can even plug the coupon numbers in for online purchases... http://www.hfqpdb.com/ and while you are there at the site print (save) one of the free item coupons as well and get even more value with a free item...

As for the hole size to drill 11/32" is the proper size for a 1/8" NPT but you can get by with a clean 3/8" hole or a slightly enlarged 5/16" hole, aka run the 5/16" drill in and out a few times...

 

[Daox13]

No problem putting them in at all, drilled and tapped (threaded) the holes and they screw right in and seal up with no problem... The side walls on a 55 gallon drum depending on where you drill can be 1/4" thick or more so IMO it's best to tap them vs forcing them as they will shear off if you force them...

For that barrel I used a 1/8 (NPT) tapered plumbing pipe tap as horizontal nipples have a unique proprietary thread, ideally a metric 10mm x 1.0 (tapered) would be ideal as that is the thread used on vertical nipples... But at the end of the day the difference between a 1/8" NPT and M10-1.0 (tapered) is insignificant in this application as they are nearly identical, and even in metal you can force fit between the two if push comes to shove...

You can pick up the taps for a few bucks on Ebay, you really don't need a tap handle if going into plastic, you can just use an adjustable wrench or locking pliers...

Or you can do what I did and just pick up a cheap tap/die set as it's one of those tools that if you have it you will likely eventually find uses for it...

This is the cheap set I have, it's all imperial screw size except for the single pipe tape, kind of idea in this application...

http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/tap-die/40-pc-carbon-steel-sae-tap-and-die-set-63016.html

Only $15.99 or $12.79 with a 20% off coupon printed (or just download it to your phone and show the cashier) from this site, you can even plug the coupon numbers in for online purchases... http://www.hfqpdb.com/ and while you are there at the site print (save) one of the free item coupons as well and get even more value with a free item...

As for the hole size to drill 11/32" is the proper size for a 1/8" NPT but you can get by with a clean 3/8" hole or a slightly enlarged 5/16" hole, aka run the 5/16" drill in and out a few times...

surprisingly I have a tap set fresh and new still in the package. hahaha, just like you said I saw it at harbor freight on clearance and it struck me as something you rarely need but once needed it can be a life saver.

I really do appreciate your suggestions, I think I may alter my design to stand upright and I may put the heater in there, do you think it is a considerable increase in electric use for the full 55 gal or bucket? I see what you are saying about it being bigger so once up to temp it should be easier to maintain, just concern the cost of heating the 55 gal compared to the 5gal initially may out weight the savings????

 

[Daox13]

I've never used them in thick wall vessels....if I did I would cut threads first I think, especially hard materials like PVC.
The typical HDPE of 55 gal drums are fairly soft and may not need threads cut first.

Here's my take on installing HN's
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...ing-loaded-watering-nipples/210#post_14202676
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...ing-loaded-watering-nipples/330#post_14593735

Awesome! as always you have a wealth of knowledge. I much appreciate your support!

 

[MeepBeep]

I really do appreciate your suggestions, I think I may alter my design to stand upright and I may put the heater in there, do you think it is a considerable increase in electric use for the full 55 gal or bucket?  I see what you are saying about it being bigger so once up to temp it should be easier to maintain, just concern the cost of heating the 55 gal compared to the 5gal initially may out weight the savings????

Well I have no idea of the actual duty cycle of a heater, that is bound to vary drastically by ambient temps...

But, we can work some quick math using a 250W heater if the heater cycles on for a total of 12 hours a day to keep the 55 gallons liquid, it would cost about $10 a month, but I suspect most of the time it's cycling on much less due to the fact it's a larger volume and contained, probably costing me about give or $5 or less a month, so at that end of the day between heating 5 gallons and 55 gallons is probably splitting pennies a day... Not to say those pennies are not important, but for me it's well worth it even it was costing $20 a month as it's only for a few months, with many of those winter days being quite mild...

 

[aart]

Quote: .......or you could drop $25 right off the bat and buy a Kil-A-Watt and measure the power usage pretty exactly.
Very difficult to estimate the cost of running a heater without one.

 

[MeepBeep]

.......or you could drop $25 right off the bat and buy a Kil-A-Watt and measure the power usage pretty exactly.  
Very difficult to estimate the cost of running a heater without one.

Yeah, if you really want to nail it down and know for sure... As I said though for me even if it's running 24/7 (it's not) it's worth the cost to not have to worry or deal with frozen water... A smaller water container for me simply is not practical, my birds will drink between 5 and 10 gallons a day, so either way I would need to heat at least 15 gallons just to be safe for the day, and the hassle of filling up their water container every day in the dead of the winter would far outweigh any power savings... As it is I only have to fill about once a week, much easier...

 

[aart]

Quote: Yep, that was my point.

 

[Daox13]

.......or you could drop $25 right off the bat and buy a Kil-A-Watt and measure the power usage pretty exactly.
Very difficult to estimate the cost of running a heater without one.

Yeah, if you really want to nail it down and know for sure... As I said though for me even if it's running 24/7 (it's not) it's worth the cost to not have to worry or deal with frozen water... A smaller water container for me simply is not practical, my birds will drink between 5 and 10 gallons a day, so either way I would need to heat at least 15 gallons just to be safe for the day, and the hassle of filling up their water container every day in the dead of the winter would far outweigh any power savings... As it is I only have to fill about once a week, much easier...

OK lets stir the pot a little

what about an air block in the 55gal drum? I'm thinking about the size of an aquarium pump and maybe getting a ring air block. would that agitate the water enough to keep it from freezing? I'm in Va so I would understand that more northern, probably not, but I was always curious about that verse a heater... I would imagine it would be less power... but again splitting pennies?

 

[MeepBeep]

what about an air block in the 55gal drum?  I'm thinking about the size of an aquarium pump and maybe getting a ring air block.  would that agitate the water enough to keep it from freezing?  I'm in Va so I would understand that more northern, probably not, but I was always curious about that verse a heater... I would imagine it would be less power... but again splitting pennies?

Although there is some kinetic heat created by the movement of water slightly lowing it's freezing point the difference in freezing points is minimal at best... Moving water still freezes it just takes longer because the heat drop is 'mixed' and more uniform, unlike stationary water that freezes from the outside in as it continues to drop in temp... In moving water once the entire container of water hits 32°F it's going to start to freeze regardless of motion, likely a more slush like freeze then sheets as it's being moved, as is evidenced in the rivers and streams around me that still freeze to some degree during the winter.... A big factor with rivers not freezing is the churning effect combined with the geothermal heat from bellow as well as just the massive volume of water, it's not just a factor of the water moving...