2 dead, more ill, HELP!

[Michael Apple]

Anything dusty can be a cause for concern. I don't clean my coop. I use deep litter and would not use DE in it. I've heard of neem oil on roosts. White wash helps keep mites out of the crevices also (lyme). Ample dust bath areas are also great. I use wood ash and plain old dirt to keep it from getting airborne. More dirt than wood ash. In summer months they dust bathe outside.

White wash is time consuming and won't have a residual repellent any more than spraying the coop down with an emulsified concentrate, which also penetrates all cracks and crevices. I wouldn't just treat roosts since mites can inhabit any other area of the coop besides the roosts. I believe dusting areas are important also, and a dry area that lasts all year long is beneficial for a dusting area. A large enough yard with a covered area that stays dry is a necessity to me.

Since I remove droppings under roosts every morning (it takes about 5 minutes for 2 coops containing 20 birds each), the coops remain clean. Dropping boards never made sense to me either since the build up of droppings stinks and has to be dried for removal which takes time. Flies have plenty of time to respond. Shavings beneath the roosts dry droppings out, cake quickly, and can be removed easily with a fine rake and scoop. This goes to the compost pile at the other end of the pasture.

The common title of "deep litter method" as it is commonly called today came from built up litter which occurred during labor shortages during World War 2. Litter became built up around many farms due to lack of help. The dietary affect of built up litter showed that B-12, a vitamin produced by the side effect of bacterial action, existed in the litter. This vitamin was not discovered until 1950. When it was, feed mills began adding it to poultry feeds and the supposed benefits of built up litter became irrelevant.

The anti-coccidial properties of built up litter are real, but aren't consistent since it must be kept completely dry. Even then, the inviting environment for mites, lice, vectors for internal parasites are very real. The labor saving benefits of deep litter never outweighed the risks by my reasoning either. When I cleaned the coops out once a year for my Dad as a kid, we had to treat the birds' bodies for mites more often. I used to sprinkle lyme (about 10 lbs for every 100 square feet in the litter). My Dad told me "the parasites don't like alkaline environments". It may have kept down the Coccidiosis, but over the years, I've found a clean coop is a healthy, clean smelling environment with good air quality. That makes much more sense to me.

 

[aoxa]

White wash is time consuming and won't have a residual repellent any more than spraying the coop down with an emulsified concentrate, which also penetrates all cracks and crevices. I wouldn't just treat roosts since mites can inhabit any other area of the coop besides the roosts. I believe dusting areas are important also, and a dry area that lasts all year long is beneficial for a dusting area. A large enough yard with a covered area that stays dry is a necessity to me.

Since I remove droppings under roosts every morning (it takes about 5 minutes for 2 coops containing 20 birds each), the coops remain clean. Dropping boards never made sense to me either since the build up of droppings stinks and has to be dried for removal which takes time. Flies have plenty of time to respond. Shavings beneath the roosts dry droppings out, cake quickly, and can be removed easily with a fine rake and scoop. This goes to the compost pile at the other end of the pasture.

The common title of "deep litter method" as it is commonly called today came from built up litter which occurred during labor shortages during World War 2. Litter became built up around many farms due to lack of help. The dietary affect of built up litter showed that B-12, a vitamin produced by the side effect of bacterial action in the litter. This vitamin was not discovered until 1950. When it was, feed mills began adding it to poultry feeds and the supposed benefits of built up litter became irrelevant.

The anti-coccidial properties of built up litter are real, but aren't consistent since it must be kept completely dry. Even then, the inviting environment for mites, lice, vectors for internal parasites are very real. The labor saving benefits of deep litter never outweighed the risks by my reasoning either. When I cleaned the coops out once a year for my Dad as a kid, we had to treat the birds' bodies for mites more often. I used to sprinkle lyme (about 10 lbs for every 100 square feet in the litter). My Dad told me "the parasites don't like alkaline environments". It may have kept down the Coccidiosis, but over the years, I've found a clean coop is a healthy, clean smelling environment with good air quality. That makes much more sense to me.

Cleaning out my barn weekly or even monthly would break me. I couldn't afford it. I have almost 1500 square feet of coop. Not possible.

I have only ever had an issue in my baby barn when hay was involved in a kennel.

Never have I seen mites since adequate dusting areas were implemented - and never in my litter - which I am very strict about keeping a certain way. New shavings must be added and stirred in. I have gravel under the shavings, so drainage is very good. DL on concrete is VERY hard to maintain.

My birds are the picture of health, and I thoroughly believe in my methods. If you cleaning your coop as you are doing is working for you, by all means - continue doing so. Deep litter for chicks is important for me as well. It very much helps cocci immunities.

Also to keep dust down, smell down and add healthy bacteria to the litter we are using LABs.

Keeping everyone healthy while being cost efficient and natural is of utmost importance to me. A prevention IS worth a pound of cure.

With this hen I lost, it was not my management, but her disability that ultimately led to her demise. She was a real pet. Could not dust properly or roost - so it was inevitable. I could have continued to help her with dusting her manually and keeping her sleeping quarters clean, but in the end I didn't.. I feel sick about it still.

 

[casportpony]

@shalott , Michael Apple found this link to labs in the US:
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/nahln/downloads/all_nahln_lab_list.pdf, so if you're in the US you might want to have a necropsy done if you haven't buried her yet.

This is a copy and paste from a post of mine:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/799747/how-to-send-a-bird-for-a-necropsy-pictures

How to Send a Bird for a Necropsy​

They need the whole bird, refrigerated, not frozen. If you live in CA there are four labs that do necropsies on poultry (chickens, turkeys, waterfowl) for free. I know that they do out of state necropsies, but I think they charge for those. You could call them and ask what they charge for out of state "backyard poultry". The lab I use is the one in Tulare, CA. If you are in CA, call them and ask for their FedEx account number, it will save a bunch on shipping charges.

CAHFS
18830 Road 112
Tulare, CA 93274-9042
(559) 688-7543
(559) 686-4231 (FAX)
[email protected]


The other labs are listed here:
http://www.cahfs.ucdavis.edu/services/lab_locations.cfm

If it's Friday, unless you want to overnight for Saturday delivery, I would suggest shipping on Monday for Tuesday delivery. What you need to do, if you haven't already done so is put your bird in your refrigerator, NOT the freezer! Then you need to find a box, line it with styrofoam (I use the 4'x8'x1" stuff from Home Depot. You can also get smaller pieces at an art store like Michael's, but is way more expensive. Click here to see foam options. You'll also need at least one ice pack. Here are some pictures that I took of the last bird that I sent:

Box lined with foam on four sides and bottom. Seams of foam taped sealed.


Box, sides, bottom and and top.


Frozen ice pack in ziplock baggie.


Brown paper on top of ice pack.


Hen in ziplock baggie on top of brown paper.


Brown paper on top of hen.


Ice pack on top of brown paper.


Lid on top of brown paper.
​

Inside the box you should also include a submission form in a ziplock baggie. Do not tell anyone at FedEx that you're shipping a dead animal... that seems to really worry them. Just make sure that nothing will leak.

Hope this helps,
Kathy

 

[Michael Apple]

Cleaning out my barn weekly or even monthly would break me. I couldn't afford it. I have almost 1500 square feet of coop. Not possible.

I have only ever had an issue in my baby barn when hay was involved in a kennel.

Never have I seen mites since adequate dusting areas were implemented - and never in my litter - which I am very strict about keeping a certain way. New shavings must be added and stirred in. I have gravel under the shavings, so drainage is very good. DL on concrete is VERY hard to maintain.

My birds are the picture of health, and I thoroughly believe in my methods. If you cleaning your coop as you are doing is working for you, by all means - continue doing so. Deep litter for chicks is important for me as well. It very much helps cocci immunities.

Also to keep dust down, smell down and add healthy bacteria to the litter we are using LABs.

Keeping everyone healthy while being cost efficient and natural is of utmost importance to me. A prevention IS worth a pound of cure.

With this hen I lost, it was not my management, but her disability that ultimately led to her demise. She was a real pet. Could not dust properly or roost - so it was inevitable. I could have continued to help her with dusting her manually and keeping her sleeping quarters clean, but in the end I didn't.. I feel sick about it still.

Understandable. I clean two coops, one 8 x 10 and one 12 x 12. I do it about 4 times a year and have very healthy birds also. I've created a sandy loam soil in their yards, adding extra sand this last year. The yards are large with bushes and trees for shade, and a partially covered area for protection from rain. My aim is always to prevent problems from occurring, and all is well after a number of years. The LABs you mentioned seems to be an interesting product and I'll examine it some more. I supplement water and feed routinely as well as feed a high quality ration. Probiotics exist in their ration and I supplement water also. I prefer an organic ration.

 

[Michael Apple]

@shalott , Michael Apple found this link to labs in the US:
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/nahln/downloads/all_nahln_lab_list.pdf, so if you're in the US you might want to have a necropsy done if you haven't buried her yet.

I'm glad the page is up and running again, Kathy. The phony government shutdown had the page down for awhile, and it was frustrating when I tried to help a few folks by providing the link.

 

[casportpony]

I'm glad the page is up and running again, Kathy. The phony government shutdown had the page down for awhile, and it was frustrating when I tried to help a few folks by providing the link.

Another way to find labs by State is to do a search for "name of state" veterinary diagnostic lab. For example, if you search for "California veterinary diagnostic lab" you get this:
https://www.google.com/search?sourc...California+veterinary+diagnostic+lab&safe=off

It might not work for all States, but it will list labs that people could call and ask for referrals.

-Kathy

 

[aoxa]

Understandable. I clean two coops, one 8 x 10 and one 12 x 12. I do it about 4 times a year and have very healthy birds also. I've created a sandy loam soil in their yards, adding extra sand this last year. The yards are large with bushes and trees for shade, and a partially covered area for protection from rain. My aim is always to prevent problems from occurring, and all is well after a number of years. The LABs you mentioned seems to be an interesting product and I'll examine it some more. I supplement water and feed routinely as well as feed a high quality ration. Probiotics exist in their ration and I supplement water also. I prefer an organic ration.

I will scoop out my litter come spring for the garden. I won't get rid of it all, but I will replenish with clean fresh bedding. I do that every week anyway. I don't even want to know how many bales of shavings I have already put in my barn.. it would make me sick the cost LOL.

 

[Michael Apple]

I will scoop out my litter come spring for the garden. I won't get rid of it all, but I will replenish with clean fresh bedding. I do that every week anyway. I don't even want to know how many bales of shavings I have already put in my barn.. it would make me sick the cost LOL.

Shavings are about 10-12 bucks for large bales of Eco-Flake here. It seems like yesterday they were $5 a bale. Not to mention good quality feed rations are at least $30 a sack., then gas is $4 per gallon. Grrrr!

 

[aoxa]

Shavings are about 10-12 bucks for large bales of Eco-Flake here. It seems like yesterday they were $5 a bale. Not to mention good quality feed rations are at least $30 a sack., then gas is $4 per gallon. Grrrr!

Oh well I shouldn't complain then.. They are $5.99 here a bale. I buy them in bulk to save $1 a bale (they are originally 6.99$ a bale). But it adds up..

I'm going to dry out some leaves to add to the barn this winter.

 

[rancher hicks]

I understand your logic. What about when birds are kicking up litter in the coop? There's some breakdown of litter that naturally gets dusty, but DE just added to the airborne dust particles in my experience. I have good ventilation and dry coops too. I used DE for awhile some years ago and just saw it as impractical and not very effective.

As I said so far so good. No sign of mites.