2 hens dead over night and

[EggSighted4Life]

I'll be bringing them in to my vet for a necropsy
If he doesn't find anything we'll discuss sending it off to Abbotsford for tissue sampling.

And my mistake. My older birds are on Hi- Pro feeds layer pellets at 20% protein. Yes, there's a higher calcium at 5%. They also have access to a dish of crushed oyster shells for free feeding.
This one:
https://www.hiprofeeds.com/products/20-chicken-layer-pellets

My younger pullets (everyone under 18 weeks down to 7 weeks) are separated from them and are fed the 18% no calcium grower crumbles. I was considering changing to stage 3 pellets which has 15% protein for layers to be as they're not used as broilers and I didn't want to grow them too heavy/fast. There is a mix barnyards and Orpingtons. Are you suggesting an even higher percentage than 15 or 18%?

My chicks up to 6/7 weeks are fed 20% protein no calcium. They too are also separated from the other groups.

Several of the older ones about 3 years old (layers) are having a very light molt at the moment. Not a rough molt at all.

Yep... I'm suggesting feed everybody the same 20% with oyster shell on the side... But you should do what makes the most sense to you. Here is one link... (which of course will support my POV)..
http://ucanr.edu/sites/poultry/files/186894.pdf

True they are not broilers... but they are a dual purpose breed that have more muscle than light bodied layers... their genetics is not the same as broilers and their growth is relative so that they actually won't face the same bone and joint problems of that freak of nature Cornish cross. In fact "broiler" feed USED to be 25% protein and recently they brought it back down.

When people have issues in their flock with feather picking, molting and things... more protein is almost always the recommendation. I contend not all proteins are created equal.. They will eat to meet a certain "energy" need... energy comes from calories which come from fat, carbs (including fiber), or protein... as far as I know that's it... so 2% farther to the protein side is going to give me more nutrients not fatter birds that grow faster.... I have seen some things that suggest reduced protein to slow growth during a certain phase... they will still reach the same size I think... Definitely NOT set on it though, appreciate the rational discussion about it... WOW, you work really hard with all that separate feeding and such! I can see it is important to you.

I hope you will share your findings, and even your cost for others who might be considering having it done.

I hope your flock recovers quickly and starts to really thrive!

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Ivermectin was 3 mls in 4 litres of water over 2 days total then discard the 3rd day 3 mls in 4 litres then discard. The follow up is required (as I understand) for eggs that hatch between doses to kill the new lice.

Also, it's interesting how some vets will treat some things differently..
Many here (people not vets) will use Ivermectin topically for lice and certain worms including scaly leg mite even... there are two types I know of... pour on and inject-able. Hadn't heard of using it orally in drinking water.

I know doctors also use medications for off label uses that people may not know about..

I'm glad he didn't encourage you to use DE!

 

[Isaiah53]

Yep... I'm suggesting feed everybody the same 20% with oyster shell on the side... But you should do what makes the most sense to you. Here is one link... (which of course will support my POV)..
http://ucanr.edu/sites/poultry/files/186894.pdf

True they are not broilers... but they are a dual purpose breed that have more muscle than light bodied layers... their genetics is not the same as broilers and their growth is relative so that they actually won't face the same bone and joint problems of that freak of nature Cornish cross. In fact "broiler" feed USED to be 25% protein and recently they brought it back down.

When people have issues in their flock with feather picking, molting and things... more protein is almost always the recommendation. I contend not all proteins are created equal.. They will eat to meet a certain "energy" need... energy comes from calories which come from fat, carbs (including fiber), or protein... as far as I know that's it... so 2% farther to the protein side is going to give me more nutrients not fatter birds that grow faster.... I have seen some things that suggest reduced protein to slow growth during a certain phase... they will still reach the same size I think... Definitely NOT set on it though, appreciate the rational discussion about it... WOW, you work really hard with all that separate feeding and such! I can see it is important to you.

I hope you will share your findings, and even your cost for others who might be considering having it done.

I hope your flock recovers quickly and starts to really thrive!

I was just at the feed store We don't have a pellet just crumbled at 20% protein. I just threw out 1.5 bags of chick feed for my 7 to 18 week old chicks that they pushed out of their feeders. I've tried soooo many different types but somehow the feed is severely wasted on this age group. I am trying to find a pellet that has no calcium and a higher protein to feed this group. Nothing is available here where I live. So I'm back to square one.

Yah I have rotating pens where new chicks are until 6 (sometimes up to 8 weeks with their moms. It's covered everywhere.
Then I move them to a larger enclosure but not covered at 7/8 weeks through till 18 weeks. They're side by side to the main flock. All have free range access but still free fed.

Since I have Ameraucanas as well as give medicated feed to my chicks until 6 weeks I'll have to put some more thought to this.

Yes, my vet does not recommend DE, but does recommend Neem oil as a spray. Haven't looked into it though. He also suggested other treatments but this was the most expedient at the time as many products we can't get or cannot be prescribed.

I dropped the chickens off at my vet around 1pm Pacific time. Hopefully it was nothing more than a toxic reaction to the panacur and no more will die. I'll post more when I hear back.

 

[Eggcessive]

Not knowing the dosage of the Panacur, it is hard to know if too much was given. Fenbendazole, the drug in Panacur and SafeGuard can be given over 5 days in a low dosage safely. So it may not be that at all. Ivermectin is used orally for dogs, so it probably is fine to use in chickens. I think it has been used more as a wormer though. But I don’t know dosages.

I hope you can get some answers, and I am sure your vet is a good one. We all have different ways to treat things. We all learn by sharing treatments suggested here, and having vet inout is good. Let us know what you find.

 

[Kiki]

Ivermectin was 3 mls in 4 litres of water over 2 days total then discard the 3rd day 3 mls in 4 litres then discard. The follow up is required (as I understand) for eggs that hatch between doses to kill the new lice.

Panacur was for the possible treatment of tapeworm done for 5 days twice Not 3 times. It is 4.5 gms of panacur crystals in 5 litres of water per day for 80 birds. Once it's gone fresh water is given. So, only two treatments of ivermectin (I've read 10 days between both treatments). And 2 treatments for panacur (the last dose was today for the 1st treatment the 2nd treatment would be 3 weeks from today).

My vet has worked with chickens as I mentioned before. His concern was me seeing a worm in one dropping and knowing the previous owner had never wormed figured now would be a good time to worm for tapeworms.

Do you have a picture of thus Panacur crystals package?

 

[Kiki]

Was it this?

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I just threw out 1.5 bags of chick feed for my 7 to 18 week old chicks that they pushed out of their feeders. I've tried soooo many different types but somehow the feed is severely wasted on this age group.

Many feel this frustration.

If feeders aren't at back height, raising can help some.

Not sure if it's too much effort.. but many swear by fermenting or even just wetting the feed into a mash. I have done this and can see how it helps for some people. My birds still pick through wet feed. And in my brooders.. I could see by the speckles on the wall they love pecking at so much that it isn't completely mess free. But, worth spit balling ideas.

Your set up sounds really nice. I raise Ameraucana in bantam and LF, Black Copper Marans, White faced black Spanish, Speckled Sussex and Silkies. These are the ones I currently breed, but have raised many breeds in the past including Orps, and many many other breeds. In processing them... I will say that on the same feed they carry different amounts of body fat in different locations in different breeds and grow and mature at different rates even among the same breed. But I haven't YET had an obese bird using a 20% protein feed for the entire life cycle... but more than that sometimes I go even higher than that (using game bird or turkey feed)... as 22% protein has been shown to give the best hatch rates... and I hatch, plus that says (to me) more nutrients in the eggs my family is consuming. I think it's great that you care enough to have put that much though and effort into feeding your birds... so many people simply don't care. Good luck figuring out what works best for you and your flock!

ETA: Yes, I remember now, about 6 years ago a (still) trusted vet had me use Ivermectin orally administered to fight mites for one of my dogs.

 

[Isaiah53]

I am so sad. Vet just called he said there were tumours everywhere and confirmed Marek's Disease.

I have 3 chickens that will be 18 weeks on the 29th of September, 7 that will be 18 weeks Oct 18 and 21 chickens that will be 18 weeks Nov 3rd.

36 that are about 3 years old (minus the 2 that just died)

7 chicks that turned 6 weeks Sept 23rd

Not sure how many have hatched today but there were at least 12 that hatched over the weekend and I have a hen sitting on 12 eggs that are expected to hatch Oct 4th.

Plus I have 5 that I bought at the end of June that were quarantined for 2 months and just placed in with the small group of young ones (all born end of June so about 12 to 15 weeks old).

That's almost 100 birds I may need to cull...I seriously want to cry.

Other than the 5 I brought in and the 36 (less 2 that died) that are from the original owner who left them with the farm these are ones I hatched and raised here. I just asked the vet about future vaccinations I may have to go the factory route as he's not sure if he can order the vaccine in but he's going to look into it

I'm researching it now... I understand that it's common. I'm just a bit shocked.

Anyone else ever deal with this? How did go through your flock?

 

[Kiki]

You don't have to cull any yet..just don't sell any birds.
Hold on.
@rebrascora should be able to give you some helpful advise.

 

[Isaiah53]

Was it this?
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