2 hens dead over night and

[Kiki]

My major concern is for my neighbours and their flocks with my chickens spreading it to them. I feel morally obligated, at least this time around to ensure their flocks don't contract it from mine. It's my reason to cull.

My flocks are fed good quality food from Hi Pro. From chick scratch (medicated as I am not sure what the previous owner left behind with his zoo here). Grower feed and layer
I give scratch and black oil sunflower seeds occasionally and greens from the store, they also free range on 2 acres, the older ones getting out several times a week on an area that's not fenced in to get to another 15 acres, but they usually stay nearby.

I've wondered the same about the diagnosis of Marek's. The two that died were actually sisters (same parents) and I read tumours can also be caused by another lymphatic disease. I wish I'd had the foresight to have him send out tissue of the tumours to be confirmed by the lab. So now I'm reading up on breeding for Marek's resistance before I do cull them. My vet was very cautious about saying yes or no to cull. I suspect having worked in large poultry plants before moving on he'd seen some serious problems and comes from a preventative and stop it before it gets worse thought. I get that.

My two neighbors were informed. They were very good about it and realized there's not much either of us could do. I just don't want to be irresponsible by not culling if it does affect them somehow. It's their livelihoods.

I see one hen that's going through a rough molt right now. I noticed her droppings are watery and green. I believe this was one symptom the other two had as well. I separated her two weeks ago when she started to molt because the roos were very rough on her. So I will monitor her. If she dies I will drive her 6hhours away to our government health facility for a necropsy and tissue sample... I suppose that's the best I can do right now.

I am starting to harvest my young cockerels. It'll take me a week or so do this, so it gives me time to monitor her.

I made a thread under breeding about breeding for Marek's resistance, looking for help. I'll see what answers I can find. I still have so many chicks to worry about that are isolated in another area before all this happened with the 2 that died. But I have one hen sitting on eggs and 7 chicks with their mom in the nesting area that were in the same area that the two who died were in. I'm afraid to move them in case they're infected, but they'll need space soon and I'm running out of room if they need to be quarantined. Sigh.

I'm seriously beginning to stress out now.

Can you ship/mail in your next bird? Might be cheaper than the gas money.

You neighbors and all of your birds have probably all already been exposed so try not to worry too much about that, if fact your flock may have gotten it from your neighbor. Impossible to know.

Have you thought about culling the ones that show signs of illness immediately so they aren't shedding the disease and just play the wait and see game?

 

[Isaiah53]

Can you ship/mail in your next bird? Might be cheaper than the gas money.

You neighbors and all of your birds have probably all already been exposed so try not to worry too much about that, if fact your flock may have gotten it from your neighbor. Impossible to know.

Have you thought about culling the ones that show signs of illness immediately so they aren't shedding the disease and just play the wait and see game?

I have considered that, but there's really no obvious symptoms as the strain I had are the tumours. The first one that died was quiet and always alone, so it wasn't unusual for her to be sitting off by herself. I was also worming them and several had watery droppings (now mostly cleared up). So really it was alive and fine one day one hour, then dead.

I did separate two hens about a week or so ago that were going through a hard molt The boys were being very rough with them... I noticed one has watery droppings should be cleared up from worming by now. She also looks puffed up, so I'm monitoring them. If they die I will send them in for a necropsy to our provincial lab and make sure they do tissue samples to absolutely confirm this.

 

[MissChick@dee]

Ya know I had a similar discussion just yesterday with a friend. Cecal poop happens. Naturally. She was all freaked out ran and got the Corid. That was Her Answer.
My baby chicks that I raised in my titled bathroom would poop normally during the night and during the hours before I came in.
Then wammo’ one or two would let loose with a pudding poo~Cecal whoa the stench! I thought they did it just for me, nice. Like they produced it for me as some kinda gift!
Now adults the chickens will from time to time have this. It’s normal.
I tried to explain in terms my friend would understand and used dog’s anal glands as a example. Ever smelt that???
Probably not unless they passed a large hard bowel. Then the sticky gunk did just what god had intended it to do.
Animals do get worms esp. outside foraging and what not. Just wanted to put out there that Cecal poop happens. As does over treating or improper treatment. To each his/her own.
To the OP. I’m sorry for your loss. You really didn’t have a history of these chickens because they came with the property. I can tell your going to be a wonderful chicken keeper. We all can see your care and concern.
Mother Nature can be cruel it’s a hard life lesson.
Best wishes,truly.

 

[Isaiah53]

Ya know I had a similar discussion just yesterday with a friend. Cecal poop happens. Naturally. She was all freaked out ran and got the Corid. That was Her Answer.
My baby chicks that I raised in my titled bathroom would poop normally during the night and during the hours before I came in.
Then wammo’ one or two would let loose with a pudding poo~Cecal whoa the stench! I thought they did it just for me, nice. Like they produced it for me as some kinda gift!
Now adults the chickens will from time to time have this. It’s normal.
I tried to explain in terms my friend would understand and used dog’s anal glands as a example. Ever smelt that???
Probably not unless they passed a large hard bowel. Then the sticky gunk did just what god had intended it to do.
Animals do get worms esp. outside foraging and what not. Just wanted to put out there that Cecal poop happens. As does over treating or improper treatment. To each his/her own.
To the OP. I’m sorry for your loss. You really didn’t have a history of these chickens because they came with the property. I can tell your going to be a wonderful chicken keeper. We all can see your care and concern.
Mother Nature can be cruel it’s a hard life lesson.
Best wishes,truly.

That was such a kind post. I really love my chickens. I seriously want what's best for them. I wonder if the 5 chickens I bought late July and had in quarantine for 6 weeks brought this in. The timing is right, but who knows.

I'll monitor as I go. I'm going to slowly harvest all my excess birds (ones I didn't want, roosters old layers not laying etc) and watch the flock. Thank you for everyone for your help and advice I really appreciate it.

 

[Kiki]

That was such a kind post. I really love my chickens. I seriously want what's best for them. I wonder if the 5 chickens I bought late July and had in quarantine for 6 weeks brought this in. The timing is right, but who knows.

I'll monitor as I go. I'm going to slowly harvest all my excess birds (ones I didn't want, roosters old layers not laying etc) and watch the flock. Thank you for everyone for your help and advice I really appreciate it.

Those 5 are probably the ones that brought it in.
Have these 5 fallen ill yet?

 

[Isaiah53]

Those 5 are probably the ones that brought it in.
Have these 5 fallen ill yet?

Nope none of them. No others except those two that died. I am wondering if it's Lymphoid Leukosis, which I know nothing about either. But if any do fall ill or die, I will send to our provincial health lab for a tissue sample and necropsy, rather than just a visual confirmation.

 

[Kiki]

Nope none of them. No others except those two that died. I am wondering if it's Lymphoid Leukosis, which I know nothing about either. But if any do fall ill or die, I will send to our provincial health lab for a tissue sample and necropsy, rather than just a visual confirmation.

They are both neoplastic diseases, very similar:
https://www.oie.int/doc/ged/D9316.PDF

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I wonder if the 5 chickens I bought late July and had in quarantine for 6 weeks brought this in. The timing is right, but who knows.

I'm just not buying Marek's in this case... because if a hen were "riddled" with tumors... seems odd to me that none of them would have impacted the sciatic nerve or others that cause obvious paralysis. The lack of standing in the end could have been sheer exhaustion to me... and seen in MANY humans with different cancers.. and my dog way back when.

Also.. I agree that any Marek's COULD have come from your neighbors to you and not vice versa... many people will never notice symptoms and don't care about cause of death so will assume heart attack or what have you. And if they had a limping bird it could have been taken by a predator before they noticed the issue and predator losses are often a mystery. I would be honored to have you as my neighbor!

Thank you so much for sharing... it clues us in so if and when we face this we will know what to discuss with our vets and such and maybe understand that their basic assessment might not give us all the answers we seek. I want to know the condition of her liver and other organs... the fact that she had tumors... just isn't enough detail for me. And I would NEVER again... treat for worms using a ton of different products... without VERIFICATION it is needed... not just saying oh it's never been done it needs to... after 9 years of never worming (didn't originally know you needed to)... my floats came back negative! Whether I trust the float result or not... ehh, that hard... but it's better than poisoning my birds for no reason... And I can have a second one done a couple weeks later for confirmation (suggested if result are negative). Not all environments face the same factors and should be treated accordingly!

 

[Isaiah53]

I'm just not buying Marek's in this case... because if a hen were "riddled" with tumors... seems odd to me that none of them would have impacted the sciatic nerve or others that cause obvious paralysis. The lack of standing in the end could have been sheer exhaustion to me... and seen in MANY humans with different cancers.. and my dog way back when.

Also.. I agree that any Marek's COULD have come from your neighbors to you and not vice versa... many people will never notice symptoms and don't care about cause of death so will assume heart attack or what have you. And if they had a limping bird it could have been taken by a predator before they noticed the issue and predator losses are often a mystery. I would be honored to have you as my neighbor!

Thank you so much for sharing... it clues us in so if and when we face this we will know what to discuss with our vets and such and maybe understand that their basic assessment might not give us all the answers we seek. I want to know the condition of her liver and other organs... the fact that she had tumors... just isn't enough detail for me. And I would NEVER again... treat for worms using a ton of different products... without VERIFICATION it is needed... not just saying oh it's never been done it needs to... after 9 years of never worming (didn't originally know you needed to)... my floats came back negative! Whether I trust the float result or not... ehh, that hard... but it's better than poisoning my birds for no reason... And I can have a second one done a couple weeks later for confirmation (suggested if result are negative). Not all environments face the same factors and should be treated accordingly!

If the first one had died alone and the second a week or so later I'd probably have thought nothing of it. But the fact they were biological sisters dieing within hours of each other and no symptoms other than a light molt and a day or so of lethargy in one of them, it's why I sent them in. Putting aside the worming issue I believed this was unusual. Next time I will send any that die in to our provincial animal health lab for a necropsy and histopathological testing to confirm whatever it is.

Today I notice only in my older hens (3 years approximately ) two more that may be symptomatic. Both are lethargic. But only one has the liquid green diarrhoea that the very first hen had before dieing. I decided not to cull her but see if she passes from this or gets better because of a very rough molt she's going through.

I'm convinced it's Lymphoid Leukosis and not Marek's because of their ages and how none of the younger birds have shown any symptoms or died. If it was Marek's I'd except the younger birds to have succumbed by now wouldn't you?

 

[PouleChick]

So sorry for your loss but thankyou for sharing it all so we can all learn.

Today I notice only in my older hens (3 years approximately ) two more that may be symptomatic

Eek that is a shame