2 Hoop coop cattle panel questions

[Krugerrand]

I'm planning on building a run with Cattle Panels and T-Posts - no frame. I intend to attach an apron around the bottom. This post is my general model:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/diy-thread-lets-see-your-inventions.631861/post-14292536

I have had a 16' panel used as a kiwi trellis for over 2 years and it hasn't moved. It has about 6' of opening space. Since my ground is not perfectly level, the lack of a frame makes it more flexible to the landscape.

 

[3KillerBs]

50 years, and the joints stop being so forgiving as in our indestructable youth.

Alas!

The effort of building raised beds gets more and more appealing as the ground gets further away.

I have weird soil, sand that packs like concrete and is nearly as difficult to drive stakes into. I suspect it would hold very well, but I'd probably feel more secure with a frame.

 

[affacat]

Soil dependent.

I'd either stake it (clays, rocky soils), attach the hardware cloth apron, cover/backfill that.

-- or --

Frame it, trench the aprons (soft sand soils), shovel sand back in.

Mulch and garden soils are both on special right now - its that time of year - so if you wanted a shallow garden either side for appearances (just make sure to plant chicken safe stuff!) you picked a good time for it. I wouldn't go more than 1 1/2' wide, that about all the depth I can comfortably work without getting down in the dirt. 50 years, and the joints stop being so forgiving as in our indestructable youth.

I live in Oregon... we had ice and wind this year, but generally no real weather issues other than a long rainy season.

I was avoiding going into detail about my 'master plan' because I didn't want to accidentally derail the thread, but the reason my run is going to be so large is because it is theoretically stage 1 of a huge chicken moat.

Long term (as in, I might give the first run a year to test it out.)

1: build coop with a 30 foot run or so (exact size based on not having to cut materials).

2: build another run off coop going at 90' angle (coop becomes corner)

3: eventually finish the other side of the square with 2 more runs. (Runs touch at inner corner, leaving a 7x7 or 8x8) empty square to fill...

4: use those 4 corners for... 1 or 2 coops (depending on whether I want separate flocks), an entrance, a storage shed (with smaller chicken tunnel allowing access around).

(It will be constructed near a well, and would have a well outlet inside the garden area.)

Actually, might as well sketch it... attaching sketch.

This came to me in a fever dream while struggling with the cost of chicken moats. Doing it piecemeal, and not needing to frame the run vertically are huge benefits.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I live in Oregon... we had ice and wind this year, but generally no real weather issues other than a long rainy season.

I was avoiding going into detail about my 'master plan' because I didn't want to accidentally derail the thread, but the reason my run is going to be so large is because it is theoretically stage 1 of a huge chicken moat.

Long term (as in, I might give the first run a year to test it out.)

1: build coop with a 30 foot run or so (exact size based on not having to cut materials).

2: build another run off coop going at 90' angle (coop becomes corner)

3: eventually finish the other side of the square with 2 more runs. (Runs touch at inner corner, leaving a 7x7 or 8x8) empty square to fill...

4: use those 4 corners for... 1 or 2 coops (depending on whether I want separate flocks), an entrance, a storage shed (with smaller chicken tunnel allowing access around).

(It will be constructed near a well, and would have a well outlet inside the garden area.)

Actually, might as well sketch it... attaching sketch.

This came to me in a fever dream while struggling with the cost of chicken moats. Doing it piecemeal, and not needing to frame the run vertically are huge benefits.

I pity the insects running the gauntlet to access your garden. OK, I don't pity them even a little. Chicken Protein!

Love it.

 

[affacat]

I pity the insects running the gauntlet to access your garden. OK, I don't pity them even a little. Chicken Protein!

Love it.

Hahah. I fell in love with the chicken moat idea because it just seems so symbiotic. Grow chicken snacks along the edges, etc.

The stumbling block was cost and labor... the examples I found online either framed out huge hallways of wood and wire with concrete set posts every 6 or 8 feet (they must cost a fortune!)... or were very small chicken tunnels you couldn't walk through.

After I fell asleep after spending a couple hours falling in love with chicken hoops, i woke up with this idea. I haven't seen anything like it, but....I can't wait to build it.

I'm still not sure about framing the hoop or staking it... but I can always test it one way and then do the other sides differently. It's a large undertaking... I need to build the shed, the coop, etc, but I need to do all that work anyway. This actually reduces labor somewhat due to overlapping purposes (I can use a shed wall to cap a run, etc).

It looks a bit like a crazy cult compound but it is pretty darn efficient.

I currently only have 12 ladies, but this setup should handle 50+ easy depending on how long the sides are (every 2 feet of hoop is 16sq if set 8 feet apart, so a chicken per 2 feet seems about right). I actually find the idea of 50 chickens more overwhelming than the build labor.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

If one of your corner building measures 8x8, that's 64 sq ft, and what would (per the typical rule of thumb) be considered adequate house for 16 birds (assuming it also had 16 linear feet of roost (likely as two 8' bars, ad slightly differing height), at least 16 sq ft of all season free ventilation, and four nesting boxes.

By the same thumb rules, a hoop coop "run" 8' wide and 20' long would be 160 sq ft, or 10 sq ft of run/bird would check off that box. Longer is just more run space, and "social lubricant".

I suspect, for reasons of garden space, that you will have more run than you "need", based on the size of your corner buildings - but that will make it easy to segregate flocks at need. Its a very flexible design you are working on, and while the flock remains small, you could even rotate them thru runs, reseeding behind you, to give the grasses, etc a chance to recover periodically.

 

[affacat]

If one of your corner building measures 8x8, that's 64 sq ft, and what would (per the typical rule of thumb) be considered adequate house for 16 birds (assuming it also had 16 linear feet of roost (likely as two 8' bars, ad slightly differing height), at least 16 sq ft of all season free ventilation, and four nesting boxes.

By the same thumb rules, a hoop coop "run" 8' wide and 20' long would be 160 sq ft, or 10 sq ft of run/bird would check off that box. Longer is just more run space, and "social lubricant".

I suspect, for reasons of garden space, that you will have more run than you "need", based on the size of your corner buildings - but that will make it easy to segregate flocks at need. Its a very flexible design you are working on, and while the flock remains small, you could even rotate them thru runs, reseeding behind you, to give the grasses, etc a chance to recover periodically.

Oh, I'm glad you posted this... I was mis-mathing my coops.

The beautiful thing about this setup is that the corner buildings can be extended either 'in' or 'out' to balance with run size. If you do it in 4 ft increments (panel width) you can fairly easily calculate chicken count based on desired garden size and how much run you prefer per chicken (10 is standard, but I do 16, which means 2 chickens per 4 foot cattle panel of run.

If keeping each coop 8 feet wide, you can replace one cattle panel 'run' with 4 feet of coop... (you can also build outward as much as you want, obviously, but I like the square).

Each 4x8 segment is 32sq ft, thus supports 8 chickens as coop, and 3 chickens as run (at 10sq, 2 if you prefer 16 sq... I actually use 2).

Attached a diagram to make this easier... you also need to add doors to the coops for cleaning, but also for releasing chickens into garden at end of season, etc.

And to through in a huge wrench for me, my wife and kids just chimed in.

I was planning on making my 'flex' corner an exterior facing covered area for alpaca with a secondary human/small tractor entrance into the garden... but my family now is asking me to make one run for rabbits. This will reduce the size of coop 2's run... which is okay. The smaller coop can be used for problem chickens, or maybe breeding chickens?

The only issue is I've never raised rabbits so now I need to figure out how to keep them from burrowing into the garden, keep them happy, and design a suitable hutch. Unless I can talk them out of it.

Anyway... point is, this design is extremely flexible. Easy to modify size of buildings and run to need, as long as you do the math before you start. Also, you don't need to build it all at once. Coop and 1 run first, then add a shed, add another run, etc.

Having never seen this design before, am I allowed to dub it a Chicken Moop? Too corny?

 

[affacat]

Huh. I just realized I could potentially frame the outer hoop with 2x6 for easier hardware clothing... and use j rebar stakes for the interior of the hoop where I don't need to think about hardware cloth...

 

[NatJ]

but my family now is asking me to make one run for rabbits.

The only issue is I've never raised rabbits so now I need to figure out how to keep them from burrowing into the garden, keep them happy, and design a suitable hutch. Unless I can talk them out of it.

Maybe lay paving stones in the rabbit area to prevent burrowing?

Any idea how many rabbits? And for what purpose? (pets, breeding more pets, breeding for meat, breeding for show, etc.)

You'll also need to figure out whether the "rabbit run" is their full-time housing, or whether it's just the place for rabbits to play on occasion, while living in cages or hutches the rest of the time.

It's common to have each adult rabbit live in a cage of their own. Some people have success with multiple rabbits living in one large space, but some other people find that the rabbits fight, hurt or kill each other, and kill newborn bunnies. If you do want them to live together, neutered pets are likely to get along better than a breeding colony.

 

[affacat]

Maybe lay paving stones in the rabbit area to prevent burrowing?

Any idea how many rabbits? And for what purpose? (pets, breeding more pets, breeding for meat, breeding for show, etc.)

You'll also need to figure out whether the "rabbit run" is their full-time housing, or whether it's just the place for rabbits to play on occasion, while living in cages or hutches the rest of the time.

It's common to have each adult rabbit live in a cage of their own. Some people have success with multiple rabbits living in one large space, but some other people find that the rabbits fight, hurt or kill each other, and kill newborn bunnies. If you do want them to live together, neutered pets are likely to get along better than a breeding colony.

I honestly am not sure. Rabbits aren't my idea, but my 7 year old is a proponent. Basically, my son had mentioned getting a hutch and a couple pet bunnies before... but now everyone but me seem to want to dedicate a 32x8 hoop run (plus large building) to them. If I understand correctly thats 20-25 rabbits, though many recommend dividing the run in half for does/bucks.

if we are dedicating that much room, material, and labor to them I feel like it has to be productive (aka overflow culled for meat).

Based on a couple hours research, it seems you are correct most people do individually cage... though I (and my family) am far more intrigued by a more social colony setup. I've found a few positive accounts of that.

One person I read about dug down a bit and laid 2 inches of concrete underground to prevent burrowing escapees!

Thankfully, figuring out the rabbit situation isn't a rush. First up is building a new coop, and my first hoop run. Then the shed. So I've got time.