2 Month Old Saddleback Pomeranians

[1MrsMagoo]

Cindy!

First, fingers are crossed that the lone Pomeranian becomes part of your flock.

Yes, we do have our small group of Pomeranian owners here and BYC and all we can do is try to do our best: Helping each other where, when, and how we can.

Most of the breeders out there started with less than perfect birds and bred them, culled or sold all but the best offspring, and did it again. Even a poorly marked bird can throw a beautifully marked baby, but just not as often as the better bird may. If we want good birds we have to know what we are aiming for and not breed any bird that doesn't take us one step closer to that goal.

OregonBlues has the advantage of starting out with Holderread's birds, which is a huge help: He has many years time invested into selectively breeding his stock (a luxury we don't have). Also O.B. has the advantage of being some months ahead of anyone else in research, showing, and knowing the right questions to ask the right people. I'm just happy Oregon has been so kind and gracious to pop in our threads and throw a few pointers our way.

Like you, my birds came from a farm in where they weren't the person's principal flock (although he had a couple dozen of them). He just let them pair off and have babies, so I am lucky to have gotten as good of birds as I did. With a few generations of work, I should be able to get some consistently good looking birds. It will just be much slower going with geese than chickens or ducks, where multiple generations can be achieved in a year, because of the seasonal laying.

I am still contacting every breeder that I hear has Pomeranians and trying to get photos of their stock. If they look good, then I get myself on the waiting list for eggs or goslings. I am on two lists for next spring right now and will continue to flesh-out every source for these birds till I have at least 3-4 more bloodlines. That way, I will have a much larger pool of birds to choose from when breeding. It only takes time and money.......

Although I'd like to show eventually, I can't seem to find anything other than local fairs, where the birds must be left for a week. The local fair is in September when it is still really hot here and I would not dream of leaving one of my geese in a cage without their flock or pond for a week. I will wait to find an actual poultry show that is closer than 8-10 hours away if possible. Otherwise, will wait a couple years till our daughter is old enough to stay home and take care of the farm while we go since we have nobody else that could do it.

Keep posting pictures of your Poms as they continue to grow. It will be interesting to see how they turn out.

 

[theoldchick]

And here I was thinking this was a thread about tiny super fluffy dogs!

Nice gaggle.

 

[Oregon Blues]

If I am the list expert on Pomeranians, we are all in trouble. Information is difficult to come by. I was fortunate enough to stand face to face with Dave Holderread and soak up his information on Pomeraninas (when I was buying from his flock dispersal).

I bought an entire flock of top quality birds from another flock dispersal, just to keep them together. It frightens me how few people are breeding quality Pomeranians and every time a flock is dispersed, more good stock is lost forever.

A very quick and basic lesson on breeding show animals, no matter what kind.

Decide what you want them to be. Each generation, keep the ones who come closest to your goals. Pet home the ones who are furthest from your goals. Each generation, your birds (or show dogs or show horses, or whatever you are breeding) should be a little better than the last generation.

The SOP will tell you what they should look like. You have to decide what else they should be.

Me, I set high priority on temperament and health. Bad temperament or health issues get a bird removed from the breeding flock. My geese are expected to hatch and raise their own goslings. Ganders are expected to be good fathers. Goslings must grow well with standard feeding and care; no specialized treatment to compensate.

Pomeranians should be a premium table bird, so I give preference to birds with large breasts. Yes, I eat my Geese and test how they are on the table.

With breeding registered animals, there is a ton of information in the pedigree. We don't get that with poultry. So you have to keep your own records. Note where your birds are less than perfect and keep track of how often they pass that trait along. Note where they are exceptionally good and how often they pass that along. Birds who do not improve themselves with each generation can be pet homed.

 

[1MrsMagoo]

If I am the list expert on Pomeranians, we are all in trouble. Information is difficult to come by. I was fortunate enough to stand face to face with Dave Holderread and soak up his information on Pomeraninas (when I was buying from his flock dispersal).

I bought an entire flock of top quality birds from another flock dispersal, just to keep them together. It frightens me how few people are breeding quality Pomeranians and every time a flock is dispersed, more good stock is lost forever.

A very quick and basic lesson on breeding show animals, no matter what kind.

Decide what you want them to be. Each generation, keep the ones who come closest to your goals. Pet home the ones who are furthest from your goals. Each generation, your birds (or show dogs or show horses, or whatever you are breeding) should be a little better than the last generation.

The SOP will tell you what they should look like. You have to decide what else they should be.

Me, I set high priority on temperament and health. Bad temperament or health issues get a bird removed from the breeding flock. My geese are expected to hatch and raise their own goslings. Ganders are expected to be good fathers. Goslings must grow well with standard feeding and care; no specialized treatment to compensate.

Pomeranians should be a premium table bird, so I give preference to birds with large breasts. Yes, I eat my Geese and test how they are on the table.

With breeding registered animals, there is a ton of information in the pedigree. We don't get that with poultry. So you have to keep your own records. Note where your birds are less than perfect and keep track of how often they pass that trait along. Note where they are exceptionally good and how often they pass that along. Birds who do not improve themselves with each generation can be pet homed.

Well, given that you know more about Pomeranians than any of us: We had no choice but to nominate you resident expert! Aside from that, you've actually spoken to Dave Holderread and gotten to "pick his brain" about these geese: Something I doubt many of us East of the Mississippi (I am east by a couple miles) will ever have an opportunity to do except by telephone or email, which lacks the all important visual part.

Anyway, couldn't agree with your approach to breeding more: It is exactly what I plan to do.

Eventually, scary as this may seem, if we are diligent and very selective over the next few years, the few of us that have this breed may have some of the nicest birds in the country. Then someday, dare I say, somebody may consider us experts. Now THAT is scary!

 

[plantcityhomestead]

Cindy!

First, fingers are crossed that the lone Pomeranian becomes part of your flock.

Yes, we do have our small group of Pomeranian owners here and BYC and all we can do is try to do our best: Helping each other where, when, and how we can.

Most of the breeders out there started with less than perfect birds and bred them, culled or sold all but the best offspring, and did it again. Even a poorly marked bird can throw a beautifully marked baby, but just not as often as the better bird may. If we want good birds we have to know what we are aiming for and not breed any bird that doesn't take us one step closer to that goal.

OregonBlues has the advantage of starting out with Holderread's birds, which is a huge help: He has many years time invested into selectively breeding his stock (a luxury we don't have). Also O.B. has the advantage of being some months ahead of anyone else in research, showing, and knowing the right questions to ask the right people. I'm just happy Oregon has been so kind and gracious to pop in our threads and throw a few pointers our way.

Like you, my birds came from a farm in where they weren't the person's principal flock (although he had a couple dozen of them). He just let them pair off and have babies, so I am lucky to have gotten as good of birds as I did. With a few generations of work, I should be able to get some consistently good looking birds. It will just be much slower going with geese than chickens or ducks, where multiple generations can be achieved in a year, because of the seasonal laying.

I am still contacting every breeder that I hear has Pomeranians and trying to get photos of their stock. If they look good, then I get myself on the waiting list for eggs or goslings. I am on two lists for next spring right now and will continue to flesh-out every source for these birds till I have at least 3-4 more bloodlines. That way, I will have a much larger pool of birds to choose from when breeding. It only takes time and money.......

Although I'd like to show eventually, I can't seem to find anything other than local fairs, where the birds must be left for a week. The local fair is in September when it is still really hot here and I would not dream of leaving one of my geese in a cage without their flock or pond for a week. I will wait to find an actual poultry show that is closer than 8-10 hours away if possible. Otherwise, will wait a couple years till our daughter is old enough to stay home and take care of the farm while we go since we have nobody else that could do it.

Keep posting pictures of your Poms as they continue to grow. It will be interesting to see how they turn out.

MrsMagoo, we may not have started with the best birds, but hopefully we will get there eventually. I too am thankful that we have OB in the group, so we can see more pictures of good Poms. If any of your egg sources are east of the Mississipi, would you mind sharing?

Wow. I just realized how late it is. I need to get some sleep tonight. Will write more tomorrow.

cindy

 

[1MrsMagoo]

Cindy,

I'm always happy to share my sources: Are you primarily interested in the grays, or do you want buff sources to?

Once I get verification from a breeder I will post it...in the newly created Pomeranian Goose Breed Thread.

 

[plantcityhomestead]

If I am the list expert on Pomeranians, we are all in trouble. Information is difficult to come by. I was fortunate enough to stand face to face with Dave Holderread and soak up his information on Pomeraninas (when I was buying from his flock dispersal).

I bought an entire flock of top quality birds from another flock dispersal, just to keep them together. It frightens me how few people are breeding quality Pomeranians and every time a flock is dispersed, more good stock is lost forever.

A very quick and basic lesson on breeding show animals, no matter what kind.

Decide what you want them to be. Each generation, keep the ones who come closest to your goals. Pet home the ones who are furthest from your goals. Each generation, your birds (or show dogs or show horses, or whatever you are breeding) should be a little better than the last generation.

The SOP will tell you what they should look like. You have to decide what else they should be.

Me, I set high priority on temperament and health. Bad temperament or health issues get a bird removed from the breeding flock. My geese are expected to hatch and raise their own goslings. Ganders are expected to be good fathers. Goslings must grow well with standard feeding and care; no specialized treatment to compensate.

Pomeranians should be a premium table bird, so I give preference to birds with large breasts. Yes, I eat my Geese and test how they are on the table.

With breeding registered animals, there is a ton of information in the pedigree. We don't get that with poultry. So you have to keep your own records. Note where your birds are less than perfect and keep track of how often they pass that trait along. Note where they are exceptionally good and how often they pass that along. Birds who do not improve themselves with each generation can be pet homed.

Wow! Lots of good information there Oregon Blues. I hadn't even thought about how I was going to keep records. I love your breeding priorities. I may not have perfect birds, but those are all goals I can strive for. How long do you breed a bird? Geese live so long, I was thinking it would be more like dog breeding....continue to breed for a number of years. If the next generation is much better, do you just breed those, or breed back to parents?

Thank you so much,
cindy

 

[Oregon Blues]

If you have a goose who produces real quality, hang onto her. If she has really lovely daughters, you still need to breed the daughters to be sure that they also produce quality offspring.

If you have a goose who has serious faults, then replace her with younger better birds as soon as you have tested to make sure they produce good offspring.

Some of it is trying to better the breed, but some of it in older breeds is to try to maintain the quality of old. Or even get back up to the quality level of old.

With the ganders, you pay attention to what he sires and with which goose. He might be a "nick" for one goose and not do very well with another. If he sires great goslings for you, you keep him. If he sires too many mediocre goslings, you replace him with something better.

Removing birds from the breeding flock might mean re-homing, sending them to the freezer, or simply removing them to another pen and replacing the eggs in their nests with eggs from a better bird, or with eggs sired by a better gander.

I get really attached to my geese, and there are ways to keep them out of the breeding pool, and keep them happy.

 

[plantcityhomestead]

Oregon Blues, I copied this over to the Pomeranian thread. We need to keep this information easy to find for all of us that are trying to improve our flocks.

cindy