20-week old pullet sneezing/gaping

[speckledhen]

I haven't said much-not much to add to the situation-but, I'm thinking about you and your Splash.

 

[Three Cedars Silkies]

Wynnette...how is Splash doing?

 

[Wynette]

Well, my little girl has had 6 full days on the new meds, and she's exactly the same. Still sneezing, not eating on her own, a bit lethargic. I put a chicken saddle on her with a ring that you can hook a leash to, and took her for a walk yesterday; she's a bit weak, but enjoyed getting out in the grass anyway and did some scratching and pecking at grass, but not much eating going on.

I called my vet to see if there's anything else she can think of. I don't know if I want to take her into the vet again...was $181 last time, and I just can't be spending that amount of money on one chicken. The thought of euthanizing her now, after all this time of hand feeding and such, makes me sick to my stomach. Vet should be calling me back soon. Maybe she'll discount another visit? If so, I'll probably go on ahead & take her back in. Sigh. Why can't I give up on this girl? It would be so much easier.

Edited: Well, I just heard from the poultry vet. I told her what the situation is, and she paused a few seconds, sighed...then said, "Well, you could try putting some of the Tylan powder into the fluid you're using for the nasal flushes and see if that helps." Her tone told me she doens't have any further suggestions.

So, I guess I'll go ahead and try that. Sigh. I wonder if it would make any difference if I tried the Tylan again, once this current med is over? Am I trying too hard? Maybe it's time to put her down...sheesh, I'm tearing up just typing it...

 

[Three Cedars Silkies]

Wynnette...there isn't anything she'll eat on her own?? It could be because she can't smell it. I would add the Tylan powder like the vet mentioned.

I don't know when you give up...that's such a hard decision to make for everyone. Please know that I"m thinking of you and Splash and will pray that God will guide you in your treatment and decision-making....

 

[Wynette]

I've tried oatmeal, yogurt, scrambled egg....all the stuff most chickens love. I even caught a few crickets for her yesterday and she showed no interest at all. The odd thing is that she does really well with the handfeeding. I'm typicaly able to get at least 40ml's of the syringeable formula into her per feeding, which is a good amount. And she's really good about it.

I guess I'll try the Tylan powder in the nasal flush and see if that works for a few days.

 

[dlhunicorn]

Quote:
Here is the link to the article I found:

http://www.vetpathology.org/cgi/content/full/38/2/233

Very interesting article, thanks. I was just curious, because the pine shavings in my smaller coop tend to get wet easily when it rains and I certainly don't want to go through what Wynette has been dealing with.

I have been following this thread... here some more info:
AVIAN INTESTINAL SPIROCHATOSIS
http://www.octagon-services.co.uk/articles/poultry/AIS.htm
EXCERPT:
causes chronic brown watery droppings...previous studies have shown that 70% of flocks have spirochaetes but only 30% have pathogenic or disease-causing strains."
http://www.octagon-services.co.uk/poultryposters/WVPA2005.htm
excerpt:
B.pilosicoli is potentially a serious chronic pathogen...faecl contact is the major factor in the spread of the infection...studies show that tiamulin is particularly effectivce as treatment .
http://www.bioagrimix.com/haccp/html/tiamulin.htm
Info on TIAMULIN
http://www.wattnet.com/Library/ViewLib.cfm?PG=1&ST=0&libNum=1100
(MORE ON TREATMENT Spirochaetes)
Both the tiamulin and lincomycin treatments were effective in removing the BP infection, while untreated infected birds remained infected. The use of zinc bacitracin in flocks with avian intestinal spirachaetosis (AIS) caused by BP should be avoided. However, if the infection is caused by B. intermedia, zinc bacitracin is effective in reducing colonization. This emphasizes the importance of differential diagnosis between the two species of spirochaetes in flocks with AIS.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=slv8-msgr&p=zink Bacitracin veterinary

http://www.rirdc.gov.au/comp02/eggs1.html#UMU-23J
(excerpt)
"This project has improved the Australian capacity to rapidly identify and type intestinal spirochaetes from chickens. It has demonstrated that strains of the various spirochaete species vary in their susceptibility to antimicrobials, but in general there is little antimicrobial resistance present. Care should be taken with the use of zinc bacitracin, as it may predispose chickens to infections with B. pilosicoli. Both tiamulin and lincomycin are effective in treating intestinal spirochaete infections, but addition of dietary enzyme with xylanase activity also can reduce colonisation with B. intermedia."

you/your vet considered this possibility or tested for it?:
http://parasitology.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/login/n/h/2113.html
(excerpt)
"...Species of the genus Cryptosporidium are coccidian parasites that infect epithelial cells (extracytoplasmic) of the intestinal and respiratory tract of vertebrates (see Opportunistic Infections). Although immunocompetent hosts show no or only mild clinical signs after Cryptosporidium infections particularly young birds under stress may suffer from life-threatening watery diarrhea, or severe respiratory symptoms. Cryptosporidiosis in chickens, turkeys, quail, and pheasants is usually manifest as respiratory disease caused predominantly by C. baileyi or as enteritic disease (small intestine) caused by C. baileyi and C. meleagridis. The severity of infection depends on the immunocompetence of the host. Infections are due to aerosol transmission of infective oocysts coughed up by carrier (seeder) birds, or may be transmitted by feed or water supplies containing sporulated oocysts derived from feces of infected birds. Clinical signs in birds are coughing, mucoid discharge, dyspnoe, diarrhea, dehydration, weakness and weight loss.
Causal therapy and chemoprophylaxis of chicken cryptosporidiosis with ionophorous antibiotics is problematic. Many approaches to anticryptosporidial efficacy of commercial drugs have failed to improve symptoms in birds suffering from Cryptosporidium infections. Several other anticoccidials as sulfonamides, lasalocid sodium, halofuginone, and decoquinate, or other antibiotics (e.g., paromomycin) available as additives in-feed (Table 1), or as other dosage forms for oral administration have proved to be insufficiently effective in controlling or even eradicating Cryptosporidium infection in birds. The drugs may exhibit positive short-term effects such as improvement of watery diarrhea and reduction of oocyst output in feces due to their `static' rather than `cidal' action on cryptosporidia."

 

[Wynette]

WOW! Thanks so much, Diana, for posting. I've got lots of reading to do...

So, it looks like I should ask my vet to test for Cryptosporidium - am I understanding, I read through your post twice, and this is what I'm gathering. Please confirm if I'm understanding your suggestion. Thanks!

She doens't have watery brown diarrhea - well, let me revise that to say that maybe 1 out of 6 or 7 poops have been watery & brown; the rest have been green-capped with white. I was assuming the brown/watery was cecal, and that it was more watery than normal due to the slurry I'm feeding her and/or the meds.

I'll read the attachments to your post, although most of this is over my head. THANKS again, Diana!

 

[dlhunicorn]

you might want to print out the entire articles and highlight my excerpts from them IF your vet is suspecting this (some are illustrated with typical poos which is symptomatic of spriochetes (I just assumed your vet had tested for it or had suggested it> if not then disregard)

it is a possibility tho I note that you say your flock had coryza and then it is known that stressed or weakened birds can often have a mild recurrence which may also be what is happening but I noted that you said your coop often has wet spots and this is a real nono when talking of cocci or crypto so yes you might want to have him do a crop swab to try and isolate the organism...

...when you finish with this round of antibiotics (not sure what you are giving at the moment...seem to have missed that) ...with the exception of the nylan nasal flush (do you know how do to a proper nasal flush? If not you can also mist it with a nebulizer which is quite a common practice (see this article under nebulisation and flush:
http://www.redrobe.com/sharon/avian-respiratory-diseases.html
anyway , after you finish this round of the prescribed antibiotic s (systemic not the tylan nasal flush or mist which you can go ahead with)give your bird a break and give her a live culture yogurt free choice and add a top dressing of POWDERED milk over the feed as a prebiotic for the probiotic. I would add baby parrot handfeeding formula to the feed to concentrate the nutrition as a general support measure... just enough to her normal feed to make it clump together (the baby parrot handfeeding formula you can get as a powder from your petstore)

 

[Wynette]

Nope, haven't had corzya - I had posted regarding a different pen that I noticed one of my birds having swelling around her eyes...I decided not to treat, and the birds in that pen are all fine (a few are heavily molting, so I think it was due to losing feathers quickly and perhaps itching around her eyes). That pen is about 40' from the pen this sick one is from.

And wet? No, not really...we're actually in a bit of a drought and have been most of the summer. I mean, the few times we've had a good amount of rain, yes, it's wet for a day or two in the run until it dries out. But I've kept the coops/inside pens very clean and dry.

None of the rest from her pen (there are 14 others) have been sick, with the exception of two several months ago (a cockerel and a pullet) that began sneezing...I separated them after observing them a day (these were occasions that were maybe 2 weeks apart) and gave them both water soluble Tylan; both stopped sneezing within 2 days, and have recovered completely.

I'll print up the info. and read...it's so over my head, but I'll see if I can understand any of it. THANKS again so much, Diana! I know when you post, it's ALWAYS good info.!

 

[gumpsgirl]

Hey Wynette! I've been so busy the last few days and haven't had much time to get on BYC, but have been wondering how little Splash is doing. I was really hoping to read better news. I am so sorry. I thought for sure that she would be getting over this by now especially after you spent the money and took her to the vet to get a diagnosis. I'm glad that Diana has checked in on the situation. Hopefully with her advice, you can get this little pullet/hen on the mend now. Sending you lots and lots of hugs.