** 2017 New Drug Law - What Are Your Plans? **

[Nin315]

I'm not sure why everyone assumes that needing an antibiotic is only bc of bad husbandry. My mother has 25 chickens, I have 50. There are other needs for them than disease. Mom had one chicken get an eye injury from an aggressive chicken, (now rehomed), and her eye looked to be getting infected. I went to Big R to get an antibiotic, as I had seen some there previously. They said new laws require script. Called vet and they told me to get an antibiotic in Indiana, we would haver 2 options. 1. Bringing chicken in..cost for an office call is 25 bucks.. and option 2.having vet come out and inspect flock to verify that flock is healthy,,,cost for visit is 75 dollars. Mom loves, spoils, and overkill on any husbandry, but she couldn't justify 25 bucks at minimum for 1 chicken. We separated her, gave vitamins, spoilEd her rotten, and let her out of cage to forage with a few of mom's other chickens that are free range. Because we couldn't get simple antibiotics, she kept getting worse no matter what mom did..and of course by this time mom loved her dearly. My brother finally had to put her down when it was obvious that she was suffering..ALL of this could have been solved with what we could have bought previously for around five dollars. IMHO this is another totally ridiculous example of overkill and invasion from government. .yes there may be some ppl who have zero common sense. But a simple injury, easily and cheaply treated previously turns into this mess. What if u have a chicken get attacked by a dog, raccon, etc? Even when our vet knew the situation, she said she had to follow the rules..I don't blame her but this is crazy.

 

[Beekissed]

Did you try and OTC antibiotic ointment in the eye?

 

[casportpony]

I'm not sure why everyone assumes that needing an antibiotic is only bc of bad husbandry. My mother has 25 chickens, I have 50. There are other needs for them than disease. Mom had one chicken get an eye injury from an aggressive chicken, (now rehomed), and her eye looked to be getting infected. I went to Big R to get an antibiotic, as I had seen some there previously. They said new laws require script. Called vet and they told me to get an antibiotic in Indiana, we would haver 2 options. 1. Bringing chicken in..cost for an office call is 25 bucks.. and option 2.having vet come out and inspect flock to verify that flock is healthy,,,cost for visit is 75 dollars. Mom loves, spoils, and overkill on any husbandry, but she couldn't justify 25 bucks at minimum for 1 chicken. We separated her, gave vitamins, spoilEd her rotten, and let her out of cage to forage with a few of mom's other chickens that are free range. Because we couldn't get simple antibiotics, she kept getting worse no matter what mom did..and of course by this time mom loved her dearly. My brother finally had to put her down when it was obvious that she was suffering..ALL of this could have been solved with what we could have bought previously for around five dollars. IMHO this is another totally ridiculous example of overkill and invasion from government. .yes there may be some ppl who have zero common sense. But a simple injury, easily and cheaply treated previously turns into this mess. What if u have a chicken get attacked by a dog, raccon, etc? Even when our vet knew the situation, she said she had to follow the rules..I don't blame her but this is crazy.

Sorry for your loss. FWIW, Tractor Supplly still sells injectable oxytetracyline and injectable penicillin OTC.

 

[aart]

Sorry for your loss. FWIW, Tractor Supplly still sells injectable oxytetracyline and injectable penicillin OTC.

Really @casportpony ?!?!
Why are these not on the ban list.....aren't they antibiotics??

 

[speckledhen]

Really?!?!
Why are these not on the ban list.....aren't they antibiotics??

They may soon be. The law has wording that sounds very open-ended in places.

You folks know I am not a proponent of antibiotics for ANYTHING contagious, but I have had to use them on rare occasions for infections from injuries as well as a couple of very rare cases of pneumonia, just this past week in fact. If I could not do that, then what? Not going to spend money to take a 3 yr old rooster to a vet who may not know as much as I do about chickens (unless he has some of his own and I know a couple who do). He definitely was starting up pneumonia, but in one day of Tylan injections, he was almost 100% sounding better. Just this month, I had two injured birds and one with the beginnings of pneumonia. Vet bills would be insane for us. Why let the birds suffer? We'd have had to put them down if they didn't heal up and we couldn't get antibiotics at all.

I just had to treat an injured bird, scalped completely, huge flap, open to her skull. I did give her a couple of penicillin injections just in case of infection (huge, open scalp to the bone, did not know how long it had been done by the time I saw it), in addition to using Vetericyn Wound Spray. I bought a new bottle of Pen-G, a new bottle of Tylan50, plus several bottles of fish antibiotics made to human standards (Thomas Laboratories) that I could use for us or the birds, if need be. The point is, we rarely ever need to treat our birds, but when we do, why should I pay that kind of money a vet charges when we can treat them ourselves?

Fish antibiotics are definitely water soluble, but who takes a fish to a vet? Stupid gov't regs.

The point is to take the control from the hands of the consumer, IMO. Big agri-biz is what is being supported, in the end. Control the food supply, control the people. If you can't treat your livestock yourselves, small farmers and backyarders will get out of the business/hobby.

ETA: We also bought a bag of powdered Duramycin, though we've never used it, just in case. The co-op was getting all their stuff sold out. Considering how infrequently we've had to administer antibiotics for any reason, all the stuff we got should last for many years. We all know that meds last beyond their expiration dates.

 

[julie42a]

I have a stash of people antibiotics that I keep around for my chickens just in case. It turns out my son and I are allergic to a few, so I have extras once in a while. I keep them a little, but not too long, past their expiration date and then toss them. Right now I have Bactrim and Flagyl (metronidazole), but I think they'll expire without being used. The only antibiotic I use regularly is a topical called Bactroban that I pick up in Mexico. It's for staph infections in people, but I use it for any open wounds on the girls and for bumble foot.

 

[Beekissed]

Quote:
Or finally start using more sustainable methods of keeping livestock.

 

[speckledhen]

Or finally start using more sustainable methods of keeping livestock.

But, Bee, even then, sometimes, things come up that may call for antibiotics. It is not just a management problem. Mine are quite healthy and managed well. I do not have contagious disease in my flocks, have not in all the years I've owned chickens, and if I did, I would not treat that nor do I advocate anyone else do so, either. But, crippling the livestock owner by taking away ALL our choices is not the way to go.

 

[casportpony]

Quote:

Sorry for your loss. FWIW, Tractor Supplly still sells injectable oxytetracyline and injectable penicillin OTC.

Really @casportpony ?!?!
Why are these not on the ban list.....aren't they antibiotics??

Only water soluble antibiotics and antibiotics added to feed require a prescription or VFD, and even though fish antibiotics are water soluble, they aren't "labeled" for use in food animals, so the law doesn't apply to them.

 

[casportpony]

And not all water soluble/feed antibiotics on the list, bacitracin (BMD) is one of those, and the only wormer on the list is hygromycin B, and that's because it *is* an antibiotic.