2018 Newbie Chat!

[llombardo]

Chicken integration and pecking order just stinks. I had a hard time with it. It's really never ending. I was so happy when the ducks liked each other immediately. They are a very close group.

 

[llombardo]

The pecking order takes longer and stays in a constant state of flux when humans constantly interfere.
Unless there’s a lot of blood it’s not necessary.
It can be hard to watch for us as humans (especially at bedtime) but it’s what chickens do and have always done.
I only interfere with Frodo as he is unhealthy and not able to defend himself from Angus and Oliver.
I used my stick when the younger ones were integrated at 2 -3 months old.
I haven’t used the stick in months.
They all have their little spats and chases, etc. but I don’t interfere with it anymore since a seasoned BYC veteran told me my interference causes it to take longer.
There’s plenty of room for the lower ones to get away and plenty of things to hide behind and get out of the line of sight.
Also there’s a minimum of 2 feeders and 3 waterers.
The smaller your yard is the less number of birds you can have without stress causing more fights than usual.

Even after the pecking order settles down for a while it can still change.
Lower ranking birds may decide to try for a higher place.
The higher ones want to keep their place.
My lowest ranking Wyandotte pullet actually pushed up the pecking order to 2nd place and even challenged Red.
She wasn’t successful against Red though.
It’s absolutely true that they can change the pecking order at POL.
My flock is in a state of flux right now.
Many pullets are extremely close to POL.
I know Angus is beginning to think of them as his more and more.
I know I’m going to have to split them into 2 (or 3) flocks but I need another coop.

Roo could end up lead hen one day.
You never know.
It all depends on their confidence level and how bad they want it and whether they can cause the current dominant ones to submit.
Mine have pulled some feathers out almost every day (with 23 birds something is bound to happen each day) but it really has never gotten bloody.
I just don’t know about ducks...
They seem aggressive and bossy.
I wouldn’t want to keep them with chickens myself unless there was tons of space and a way to separate them.

I actually enjoy watching the sparring and little tifs they have.
It’s like a dramatic soap opera with catty actresses and characters lol.

I thought this with ducks too but my mixed group can get along fine. The two that will go against each other are The boys and my bet would be on the rooster. Prince won't let Ricky near the girls.

 

[CannedMonster]

I thought this with ducks too but my mixed group can get along fine. The two that will go against each other are The boys and my bet would be on the rooster. Prince won't let Ricky near the girls.

Yeah but unfortunately Anna doesn’t have a rooster.
I’m wondering if the yard is too small for all of them.

 

[Anna Ranieri]

The pecking order takes longer and stays in a constant state of flux when humans constantly interfere.
Unless there’s a lot of blood it’s not necessary.
It can be hard to watch for us as humans (especially at bedtime) but it’s what chickens do and have always done.
I only interfere with Frodo as he is unhealthy and not able to defend himself from Angus and Oliver.
I used my stick when the younger ones were integrated at 2 -3 months old.
I haven’t used the stick in months.
They all have their little spats and chases, etc. but I don’t interfere with it anymore since a seasoned BYC veteran told me my interference causes it to take longer.
There’s plenty of room for the lower ones to get away and plenty of things to hide behind and get out of the line of sight.
Also there’s a minimum of 2 feeders and 3 waterers.
The smaller your yard is the less number of birds you can have without stress causing more fights than usual.

Even after the pecking order settles down for a while it can still change.
Lower ranking birds may decide to try for a higher place.
The higher ones want to keep their place.
My lowest ranking Wyandotte pullet actually pushed up the pecking order to 2nd place and even challenged Red.
She wasn’t successful against Red though.
It’s absolutely true that they can change the pecking order at POL.
My flock is in a state of flux right now.
Many pullets are extremely close to POL.
I know Angus is beginning to think of them as his more and more.
I know I’m going to have to split them into 2 (or 3) flocks but I need another coop.

Roo could end up lead hen one day.
You never know.
It all depends on their confidence level and how bad they want it and whether they can cause the current dominant ones to submit.
Mine have pulled some feathers out almost every day (with 23 birds something is bound to happen each day) but it really has never gotten bloody.
I just don’t know about ducks...
They seem aggressive and bossy.
I wouldn’t want to keep them with chickens myself unless there was tons of space and a way to separate them.

I actually enjoy watching the sparring and little tifs they have.
It’s like a dramatic soap opera with catty actresses and characters lol.

I agree about the "human interference" I came to this realisation by myself earlier this week and I have backed off. Thankfully there has never been blood shed and I hope there won't ever be and how its been so far, the birds don't peck each other hard enough to draw blood and I hope it stays this way. I watched your video of your girls trying it on with Red, from what I've seen from your video, your girls look way more vicious than mine and has me wondering if I am over reacting? I took another look at that video and listened again to your commentary, your step by step explanation has helped my understanding of my situation tremendously, Jellybean challenged Pedro for the first time ever, the other day, they bunted each other but didn't peck, every now and then Pedro will give Jellybean a short sharp peck, to remind Jellybean she is higher ranking and has no intention to give up her place, Jellybean hasn't challenged Pedro since, however whether she will try again some day, who knows.
Roo, it seems is learning to stick up for herself - My ducks don't bite, ducks establish dominance by flattening their opponent on the ground and will hold them there until their opponent surrenders by laying still without a struggle, aggressive breeds will often bite, my ducks are not aggressive breeds nor do they bite. My ducks are often at an advantage against the chickens because they stick together, where as the chickens don't, the ducks are quite territorial and will see the chickens off when they come into the ducks spots, i.e. their pools, their dirt patches, their favourite foraging patches, other than that they leave the girls alone - the ducks tend to have a pattern and mostly stick to the same parts of the garden they have chosen, where as the chickens travel all over the garden and when the chickens get too close or go into an area which the ducks have claimed i.e. their pool area they chase them off but if the girkls refuse to move which is quite often then the ducks will try to dominate them. They use their head and neck to put weight upon the back of their opponent in an attempt to force them to the ground but they have never been successful in pinning my chickens to the ground, they are too agile and either shrug the duck off, run or do this kind of twisting movement which causes the ducks to slip off them.
During treat times I sprinkle the treats i.e. mealworms, banana pieces, etc across garden which brings the birds to separating rather than putting it all in one spot which then leads to fighting.
A few days a week, I go with a pitch fork or trowel to break up the hardened dirt so they can scratch/drill for worms and bugs but now and then when turning the soil I will unearth the odd worm or two as they are scarce this time of year and are very hard to find. Jellybean, Roo and my two duck hens usually hang back, but the two drakes, Lilah and Pedro surround me often end up standing on my pitchfork or jumping in the way at the last second so I have to be very careful not to catch their feet while digging, they kind of push and shove each other out of the way, Lilah often will peck the drakes and Pedro to move them on so she can get first picking of a worm and if Pedro, Jellybean or either of duck hens happen to get a worm, the others will chase them and steal it if they can.
Today Roo braved coming over to where the ducks were foraging, the head female duck took a run at Roo to chase her off only this time Roo stood up to her, bunted her and pecked her a couple of times before running off, - clearly Roo is learning to stand up for herself. - I giggled at your comment about Roo being lead someday and funny thing is, a couple of days ago my daughter said the same thing - maybe its a sign lol.
I have a total of nine waterers plus two pools, I have six feeders, I have three bowls for oyster shells, one bowl for grit and oyster shell mix and I sprinkle grit mix in the run and some parts of the garden b'cos the girls like to scratch at it, I have three trays, two for vegetables, one for wheat, grit and corn scratch mix. I have a large water butt which when full, I open up the tap and leave it running b'cos the ducks love to play with it (it rains a lot here so it gets filled regularly). I have two patio areas, I pulled up the concrete slabs of one of my patio areas for the ducks to have as their own dirt/mud drilling area it is approx 5ft wide, 8ft long, then beside that are their two pools. The chickens have a large strip of garden behind and around the run for their dirt baths as it is the area the sun catches the most and is the sunniest area of the garden all year round. Sometimes the ducks will annoy the chickens by sticking their beaks under the chickens while they dirt bath looking for bugs/worms the chickens may have unearthed while digging, although I have backed off a lot, I will still move the ducks on when they do this so the chickens have the chance to bath, relax and enjoy whatever sunshine there may be, however when the chickens go over to the ducks dirt patch I leave them be b'cos there are times when the ducks don't seem to mind but other times when they do mind, they'll chase the chickens off any way.
If we have to go out and need to shut the birds in the run we put a removable partition across the middle and have ducks one side, chickens the other side, however if I do get to keep my birds I will be extending the run and putting the partition in permanently. However my chickens and ducks don't sleep together, they only free range the garden together.

 

[Anna Ranieri]

Chicken integration and pecking order just stinks. I had a hard time with it. It's really never ending. I was so happy when the ducks liked each other immediately. They are a very close group.

Same with my ducks, they are inseparable, they don't fight nor squabble and they are paired, my drakes look out for their girls and are very protective of them, when the girls nap in the garden their boys stand over them and keep watch, its so lovely to see. My eldest drake is alpha of the ducks, the other drake is second ranking, they never fight, and they never have. If they ever get separated (which would only happen if unavoidable) the rest of the flock are beside themselves with worry and will run around so distressed until the absent duck is returned to them but one of the things which warms my heart the most is when there is a potential threat and the head hen sounds the alarm the drakes the drakes circle their girls or if up against a fence or wall will stand in front of them to protect them. If the boys want to mate but the girls refuse them they respect that and will leave them be and just wait until the girls offer themselves to them. Neither of my boys has ever forced or raped their girls, if the girls say no, that's it they won't.
I made a terrible mistake of thinking the drakes had tried or intended to try breed one of my chickens (Jellybean) I mistook what was the drakes trying to establish dominance as them trying to mate her - it came from inexperience and lack of knowledge on my part. At that time I didn't know ducks establish dominance by flattening and pinning their on the ground and use their whole body to keep them there. - I was fortunate to be able to talk with a duck expert who told me what to look for and what to do about it, he gave me some training steps to do, which I have done all to great success, now I no longer need do anything, they've understood and have learned what I was wanting of them and it is sorted. They will still chase off the chickens when the chickens go after their treats or if they trespass and things like that but I don't intervene in that as it is normal flock and different species flock movement. My drakes are a certain amount trained, I trained them from a very young age to come to me and to follow me when I make a particular noise, they also understand the commands wait, leave and no, I never trained my duck hens but they follow the boys everywhere and they too know what I mean when I say no and they comply. They are lovely and they bring my hours of joy every day, I hope I get to keep them all.

 

[Anna Ranieri]

Yeah but unfortunately Anna doesn’t have a rooster.
I’m wondering if the yard is too small for all of them.

I am no good at measurements, and I have no idea what measurements my garden is but I can assure you it is not too small, my breeder friend has told me it isn't, plus the duck expert he very kindly put me in touch with has assured me my ducks behaviour is pecking order stuff same as with the chickens, none of them want to be lowest ranking and each want to at least retain their high ranks if not try to rise in the ranks. I was mistaken about what I thought was a drake trying to mate my chicken, he wasn't trying to breed her, he was trying to dominate her, I've had this confirmed by a reliable source and I have also been given signs to look out for should at any time the drakes want to try mate them, neither has ever displayed any of these signs, the signs they displayed i.e. shaking of their head a certain way, are confrontational and to do with pecking order stuff, I panicked and I jumped to the wrong conclusion. However I am not careless nor negligent and I keep a close eye just in case.
On reflection I have realised that I took too much notice of scaremongers telling me, they can't possibly get on together and that my drakes would turn into these aggressive rapists obsessed with sex and wanting to mate anything that moves and that they are bullies and would kill my chickens. I got told it here on BYC by duck experts who I later found out had never even encountered runner ducks let alone kept one and that the majority of these people giving what in the right circumstances would be good advice, had experience only of aggressive breeds the top one being muscovy ducks, which are renowned for their bullying ways and are prone to attacking humans too. I realise these people were trying to help and they went by their own experiences and I haven't had the same experience as they nor has any of the runner duck owners I have been speaking to. I'm just so glad the re-homing fell through, if I had of gone ahead with it and then found out all this information I would not have been able to forgive myself.
I have been watching a fare amount of YouTube videos of pecking order adjustments/ challengers etc, including yours @ChooksNQuilts and from what I've been watching what my chickens are doing isn't anything unusual or out of the ordinary. The trouble with me is that I over react and I panic too easily. I need to learn to take a step back and chill out, I'd love to be able to get myself to the relaxed and controlled place you have yourself at @ChooksNQuilts like on your video when giving that commentary, you were not phased at all, you took it all in your stride, had that of been me I'd of been running around in a blind panic making more tension for the birds and making matters worse I'm going to keep well out of it from now on, like you so wisely said, as long as there is no blood shed there is no need for me to intervene.

 

[llombardo]

Tomorrow I'm redoing the indoor area and Sunday I'm going to try to fix the run. I'll do my best and what I can on my own. This ought to be fun. I have to rearrange chickens so I can work. I'm hoping it will go smooth. Cleaning the mess they made will take the longest. Straw and bedding everywhere. I hope that the tarp wrapped around the bottom about a foot helps contain the bedding. I'm going as simple as possible. I got to make a couple roosts too. I wouldn't be dreading this if I was a handy kind of person.

 

[CannedMonster]

I agree about the "human interference" I came to this realisation by myself earlier this week and I have backed off. Thankfully there has never been blood shed and I hope there won't ever be and how its been so far, the birds don't peck each other hard enough to draw blood and I hope it stays this way. I watched your video of your girls trying it on with Red, from what I've seen from your video, your girls look way more vicious than mine and has me wondering if I am over reacting? I took another look at that video and listened again to your commentary, your step by step explanation has helped my understanding of my situation tremendously, Jellybean challenged Pedro for the first time ever, the other day, they bunted each other but didn't peck, every now and then Pedro will give Jellybean a short sharp peck, to remind Jellybean she is higher ranking and has no intention to give up her place, Jellybean hasn't challenged Pedro since, however whether she will try again some day, who knows.
Roo, it seems is learning to stick up for herself - My ducks don't bite, ducks establish dominance by flattening their opponent on the ground and will hold them there until their opponent surrenders by laying still without a struggle, aggressive breeds will often bite, my ducks are not aggressive breeds nor do they bite. My ducks are often at an advantage against the chickens because they stick together, where as the chickens don't, the ducks are quite territorial and will see the chickens off when they come into the ducks spots, i.e. their pools, their dirt patches, their favourite foraging patches, other than that they leave the girls alone - the ducks tend to have a pattern and mostly stick to the same parts of the garden they have chosen, where as the chickens travel all over the garden and when the chickens get too close or go into an area which the ducks have claimed i.e. their pool area they chase them off but if the girkls refuse to move which is quite often then the ducks will try to dominate them. They use their head and neck to put weight upon the back of their opponent in an attempt to force them to the ground but they have never been successful in pinning my chickens to the ground, they are too agile and either shrug the duck off, run or do this kind of twisting movement which causes the ducks to slip off them.
During treat times I sprinkle the treats i.e. mealworms, banana pieces, etc across garden which brings the birds to separating rather than putting it all in one spot which then leads to fighting.
A few days a week, I go with a pitch fork or trowel to break up the hardened dirt so they can scratch/drill for worms and bugs but now and then when turning the soil I will unearth the odd worm or two as they are scarce this time of year and are very hard to find. Jellybean, Roo and my two duck hens usually hang back, but the two drakes, Lilah and Pedro surround me often end up standing on my pitchfork or jumping in the way at the last second so I have to be very careful not to catch their feet while digging, they kind of push and shove each other out of the way, Lilah often will peck the drakes and Pedro to move them on so she can get first picking of a worm and if Pedro, Jellybean or either of duck hens happen to get a worm, the others will chase them and steal it if they can.
Today Roo braved coming over to where the ducks were foraging, the head female duck took a run at Roo to chase her off only this time Roo stood up to her, bunted her and pecked her a couple of times before running off, - clearly Roo is learning to stand up for herself. - I giggled at your comment about Roo being lead someday and funny thing is, a couple of days ago my daughter said the same thing - maybe its a sign lol.
I have a total of nine waterers plus two pools, I have six feeders, I have three bowls for oyster shells, one bowl for grit and oyster shell mix and I sprinkle grit mix in the run and some parts of the garden b'cos the girls like to scratch at it, I have three trays, two for vegetables, one for wheat, grit and corn scratch mix. I have a large water butt which when full, I open up the tap and leave it running b'cos the ducks love to play with it (it rains a lot here so it gets filled regularly). I have two patio areas, I pulled up the concrete slabs of one of my patio areas for the ducks to have as their own dirt/mud drilling area it is approx 5ft wide, 8ft long, then beside that are their two pools. The chickens have a large strip of garden behind and around the run for their dirt baths as it is the area the sun catches the most and is the sunniest area of the garden all year round. Sometimes the ducks will annoy the chickens by sticking their beaks under the chickens while they dirt bath looking for bugs/worms the chickens may have unearthed while digging, although I have backed off a lot, I will still move the ducks on when they do this so the chickens have the chance to bath, relax and enjoy whatever sunshine there may be, however when the chickens go over to the ducks dirt patch I leave them be b'cos there are times when the ducks don't seem to mind but other times when they do mind, they'll chase the chickens off any way.
If we have to go out and need to shut the birds in the run we put a removable partition across the middle and have ducks one side, chickens the other side, however if I do get to keep my birds I will be extending the run and putting the partition in permanently. However my chickens and ducks don't sleep together, they only free range the garden together.

Thank you for giving such a detailed explanation of your set up.
I feel like I can see it in my minds eye.
Well I think you have an excellent environment for them!
For some reason I thought your yard was small.
Sounds like everyone is actually getting used to each other and learning to stand up for themselves etc.
That’s wonderful!
It’ll get better.
You just have to realize they’re always going to have tiffs and squabbles.
Sometimes if you just stop and watch you’ll see it ends quickly.
It’s good that you want to interfere less.

Believe me I made lots of mistakes and since I had 5 cockerels I would get very frustrated and mad at them and all my running around and such just made the others afraid of me; not the cockerels either, the pullets became afraid of me.
This isn’t a comparison to you or your situation.
I’m just sharing what I learned.
I realized the pullets were afraid and I had made it so they didn’t trust me.

With my recent batch of chicks I did everything differently and many of them still let me pick them up.
It’s so interesting!
I’m watching and discovering who is highest in the pecking order with these 11 younger ones.
I’ve noticed that two of my Speckled Sussex (Sweetie & Elsie) seem to be pretty high as well as my smaller “runt” Partridge Rock, Lucy.
Lucy was so much smaller than the other PR, Paisley. But she has a much more confident personality than Paisley.

My remaining EE, Taka and one Silver Penciled Rock, Silver, are very independent and still sometimes hop onto the fence on the other side of our property. They kind of just do what they want.
My second SPR, Ivy, has a very interesting personality. She likes to follow me and see what I’m doing.
Actually they all do this at times but once they see I don’t have treats they go back to what they were doing.
But Ivy will stay and often follow me as I do chores.
I’ll pick her up for pets also.
The two SS, will often do the same.
They really come close, like right under my feet, to see what I’m doing.

The others (Sumi, Paisley & Poppy) tend to just keep to themselves and Charlotte is kind of quirky because sometimes she’s right up in there with everyone else and other times she hangs back.

My bantams are just sweet and adorable and Bootsie recently started laying cute little pinkish tan eggs!

 

[CannedMonster]

The baby’s butt is sticking out underneath Pippin

Baby Winter is 2 weeks old and jumped up on the side of the hutch all by herself!
That’s a huge jump for a little chick.

Peekaboo!

Winter has wing feathers now and is starting to get some tail feathers too.
I think she’s going to look a lot like her Mama, Emily.

 

[llombardo]

Just amazes me how these chickens hatch and raise chicks that are not really theirs. Prime example of what love is really. Just look at how Pippin adores her Winter.