27% Duckling Starter?

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

Quote:
People are at the park feeding ducks and geese game bird feed? NO! They are feeding them bread.

NOT a hard science article. NOT a controlled study. In fact it is an article I found a while back. It lists high protein AND high energy (carbs). Which one is the cause? Is it both? What proportion leads to angel wing? This article brings up questions while answering very little. I will look at the others later.

most I have seen feed floating catfish feed actually, which is usually available at the parks, at least here, well that's 30% protein minimum, but please keep reading them, LOL. The next sentence say the following yaer no artifical FEEDS were given...

BUT LETS PASTE THE HOLE THING IF WE ARE GOING THIS ROUTE, AS THE FIRST 2 SENTENCES ARE KINDA IMPORTANT.
Also I am not saying carbs play no role in it, but every single article list high protein over 20% in offspring as the # 1 problem, a few also list the sugars and carbs.




The disease manifests as an incurable anatomical condition which is acquired in young birds. Due to a high-calorie diet, especially one high in proteins and/or low in vitamin D, vitamin E and manganese, one or both carpus (wrist) joints are retarded in their development relative to the rest of the wing; for reasons unknown, if only one wing is affected it is usually the left one. The result is a wrist which is twisted outwards and unable to perform its usual function. Angel wing symptoms include stripped remiges (flight feathers) in the wrist area, or remiges protruding from wings at odd angles. In extreme cases, the stripped feathers may resemble sickly blue straw protruding from wings. In adult birds the disease is incurable and usually leads to an early death as affected birds are rendered effectively or totally flightless. In young birds wrapping the wing and binding it against the bird's flank, together with feeding the bird a more natural diet, can reverse the damage.

The only wild waterfowl populations known to be affected are those fed by man.[citation needed] In Sweden, ten different park populations of Canada geese produced angel wing. The following year one flock was not fed any artificial feed and there were no angel wing goslings produced.[citation needed]

 

[Wifezilla]

Now, for the wiki...

The disease manifests as an incurable anatomical condition which is acquired in young birds. Due to a high-calorie diet, especially one high in proteins and/or low in vitamin D, vitamin E and manganese

HIGH CALORIE is the first thing listed. Then you have protein, and then we get in to mineral and vitamin deficiencies. Hardly the single cause many seem to believe it is. Is protein getting the blame for other problems? Again. this entry sites no controlled study.

Looks like you didn't read down far enough...

There are currently two basic theories concerning the cause of Angel Wing:

1. The first involves too much protein and the second involves too many sugars[citation needed]. Angel Wing is not generally observed in waterfowl not residing near humans, and the disease can often be observed in areas where geese or ducks are excessively fed bread[citation needed]. To prevent Angel Wing, waterfowl should not be fed bread, popcorn or other human foodstuffs[citation needed]. Duck seed is an alternative for duck feeders.
2. The second theory is that the cause could be genetic, as the same breeding pair can produce several Angel Wing chicks or cygnets over many broods.

As little research has been done on this, it is currently impossible to favour one theory over the other.

This also brings up another point on feeding ducks. One of the FIRST THINGS I was told about feeding ducks by the experts was to NEVER feed them seed. Of course this is ridiculous since seeds make up a good part of a wild mallard's diet.

I will go through the rest later.

As for floating catfish feed being the duck food of choice for park feeders....never have a seen anyone feed ducks catfish food in the park. I am 47. Used to go to the duck park regularly as a kid. Took my kids to the parks to see ducks. Bread, bagels, popcorn, yes. Fishfood, never. It may happen in your area, but for your theory to hold true, there would be many more cases of angelwing in your parks than there are in other areas of the country..or even the world for that matter.

The studies and mass of hands on evidence seem to point toward lower protein levels

Not true as the studies apparently do not exist. Anecdotal evidence abounds...including mine. But a hard core study? No one can seem to produce a single link.

I agree with Wifezilla about the dangers of agribusiness, and the propaganda, corruption and profiteering involved in the conversion of the American diet. Scary indeed. To intermingle those easily acceptable facts with questionable duck dietary info seems....curious.

Not really since the corporation manufacturing your duck and chicken feed is also making your breakfast cereal, bread, and snack foods.

Knock yourself out:
http://ps.fass.org/

Did you search the term "Angel Wing"?​

 

[CityChicker]

.....LOL....

I swore that I would not come back to this thread, but the Wikipedia garbage is really worth commenting on (as much as there are things I like about Wikipedia). I could go into Wikipedia right now and enter in that, "Angel Wing is caused by the man on the moon sending magical fairy dust to earth". That is about how much validity these claims without sources have. I can't believe you guys would split hairs over the order in which things are mentioned on a Wikipedia page that is not referencing any scholarly sources to begin with.

There is absolutely nothing, including no amount of scientific research, that will change the minds of some here. Ad hominem insults in some of the posts here prove that. It says a lot about a person that when one of their positions is questioned (disagreed with) that they in turn personally attack the person that disagrees with them. It is generally a sign of a position that is indefensible. It really is a shame.

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

Quote:
pretty much agreed there,
I've proven my point
I'm done
Hope all the sane ones out there see the truth here.
The point is, they all list protein as the main underlying cause
So what if they also have carbs, never said it wasnt
they also list calcium, vitamins and minerals too
but all have protein in them as a cause.
So the simple fact is, to say it's fine to feed high protein feeds to anyone who wants to is very irresponsible
No I wouldnt feed bread either, but no one is arguing that,
You just keep harping on it NOT being protein..... Cant figure that out, pretty simple that it is at least bare minimum POSSIBLE, So why tell people they are fine with it??

Oh well, said my piece, BYE BYE now

 

[CityChicker]

Yeah, you and I are in total agreement, Aubrey. It is futile to even discuss it further. Just wanted to let you know before I head out the door because I won't be back online probably until tomorrow. I see so much lack of logic in this thread. I can't even believe some of the points that are being argued.

As Aubrey had already said, no one said that protein is necessarily a bad thing for adult birds. Angel wing is an ailment of young, growing birds, not adult breeder birds. We add fish meal here to the diet of our adult ducks to slightly bring up the protein level and give a source of animal protein. One thing has nothing to do with the other. Growing birds are not breeder birds and should not necessarily be treated the same way. I would have thought this went without saying, but obviously not. Anyway, that is all I have to say on that. There are numerous other examples of faulty logic here that I am not going to even bother with as I don't think it will matter anyway.

 

[dieselgrl48]

Hmmm Im no expert I only know what work's for me.I fed Gosling's Gamebird feed and wound up with 3 with angel wing's One really bad.I lost some duckling's also once because DH got feed from SS that was medicated.I feed new duckling's 24% reg starter then lower it about at one month.I do free range ducks once they are ground ready if they are not bought before graduating to outside.I have raised TON's of healthy duck's.

.

 

[HottentotTeal]

I just wanted to throw in that the can of worms i feed my ducks every now and then contain 17% protein.

 

[Wifezilla]

I didn't want to bring up wiki as a point, but City Chicker did. The info on all 3 sources linked to all came from the same place and it was NOT scientific.

You can say illogical all you want, but several post mentioned "the studies say" but there is still no link to any controlled study. I asked for a link several pages ago. Instead I get a wiki that parrots the same info on some random guy's website and more anecdotal stories.

Show me the science and I will shut up and go away.

At this point I am thinking of designing my own study with next year's ducklings. Separate them in to 3 groups. GIve one 16%, one gamebird feed (like I already do) and another group 38% protein (which could be done with Taste of the Wild cat food). Of course, I would need a bigger yard...

 

[katharinad]

Quote:
And you need to make sure that they don't eat anything but what you are giving to them. This means you will need to keep them on concrete away from soil and grass. I guess you didn't check out my link posted. Ironically they did this kind of study in Germany, only it is not posted online and it was written in German so you would not believe me anyway.

 

[Wifezilla]

I did check out your link, entered "angel wing" in to the search and got no links to studies on waterfowl and angelwing. Please link directly to whatever studies you are talking about.