2nd opinion needed - replacing wheat with rice?

[Rangergord]

I would tend to think also that triticale is not the limiting factor. Ultimately the feeding problem is always a limit on available protein. The problem is more likely the free range. Free range provides two major contributions to the diet, green vegetation and insects. Of these two insects are the most important because they have less fibre.
Free range varies with native vegetation type and climate, but it always involves the areas closest to the coop being picked out of insect life and vegetation and the chickens needing to chase after new spots. This is where limits are encountered.
Rotational grazing is one solution using multiple fenced paddocks or using movable tractors or pens. Range can be enriched with insect life by adding mulch, litter and food waste to areas where chickens are excluded for a time.

 

[centrarchid]

I would tend to think also that triticale is not the limiting factor. Ultimately the feeding problem is always a limit on available protein. The problem is more likely the free range. Free range provides two major contributions to the diet, green vegetation and insects. Of these two insects are the most important because they have less fibre.
Free range varies with native vegetation type and climate, but it always involves the areas closest to the coop being picked out of insect life and vegetation and the chickens needing to chase after new spots. This is where limits are encountered.
Rotational grazing is one solution using multiple fenced paddocks or using movable tractors or pens. Range can be enriched with insect life by adding mulch, litter and food waste to areas where chickens are excluded for a time.

I'd like to know number of birds, area foraged, and quality of area before saying free-range is the problem. Not enough info to make call.

 

[Rangergord]

I'd like to know number of birds, area foraged, and quality of area before saying free-range is the problem. Not enough info to make call.

I agree that these are important factors but I am not making any calls only suggesting things to be considered. I leave the call making up to the OP.

 

[Maiahr]

Good morning! Thank you all for a valuable discussions, so many insights! Yes, I did not mention anything about the flock size and type as I did not think it is important. I also did not mention the fact that all my chicken are "homemade" i.e. all are hatched by me so the layers are not the typical production layers (lived in cages, etc.).
Here is some info about the flock, though I would like to focus on some points about the grains.
The flock is a little over 100 birds, with 2-week old chicks to 5-year old hens + some turkeys. I am not counting the pheasants and peafowl as they are only 5. Free-range - they are absolutely free - no cage, no enclosure, no chicken coop; fenced with a 1.5meters fence which they regularly flyover and go in the woods (I live close to an oak tree forest in the mountains), they come back in the evening.

@Perris thank you for the table, I will print it and have it handy!

@U_Stormcrow Thank you for the explanation, except you have a statement in your post which surprised me: "Rice, of course, is even more deficient, and is still nutritionally superior to corn". According to the table above corn is better than rice? or I am missing something, I guess - rice or corn?
Triticale - it is not just my experience - all over my region where triticale is used instead of wheat, chicken are not well. Additionally, as per the little information available about it - it slows down the growth of chicken and is not good for chicks under 2 months of age. With layers - less eggs. It is gluten-free which I don't know if it is good or bad for the chicken.

@centrarchid - so you are not concerned about the oats negatives, such as: high beta-glucan levels (mentioned by @U_Stormcrow) or these levels are reduced when oats is soaked as you say - not less than 48 hours, etc. etc.?

@saysfaa thank you for the suggestion, but growing own grain for a large flock is not an option in my environment - too many obstacles, which I will not go into.

So from all comments, I may be wrong, but it sounds like wheat is the best GRAIN for chicken? Soybean - not produced and not imported in the country, (I have searched for that).
We have rice, oats, barley, corn - all at the same price.
Today I am buying Cockspur grass seeds (cheap and available) and I will be adding them to the diet.

 

[Rangergord]

I do think wheat is the best grain overall because the protein content is higher and the fibre content is relatively low in comparison to oats for example. Oats is better soaked as mentioned and used in limited amounts because too much fibre in the diet is always a negative. Corn is lower in fibre as well but is also low in protein. Corn and soy make up the largest part of complete poultry rations. If you have no soy then another protein source is required. Before soy, meat scraps were used in poultry ration. Otherwise most of your birds protein is coming from their range. You have a large flock and so it is quite likely that you are at its limits to provide enough protein.

 

[TheFatBlueCat]

Can you source an animal-based meal? I feed my flock meat and bone meal and that goes a long way to overcoming any amino acid deficiencies.

 

[Perris]

Corn and soy make up the largest part of complete poultry rations

In the USA, not everywhere. That has lead to much confusion on complete poultry rations on other threads on byc. Most countries use the grains most cheaply available there as the base, not corn/maize, which is your country's preferred ingredient for chicken feed.

 

[Rangergord]

In the USA, not everywhere. That has lead to much confusion on complete poultry rations on other threads on byc. Most countries use the grains most cheaply available there as the base, not corn/maize, which is your country's preferred ingredient for chicken feed.

Good point. I am in Canada where we grow more wheat than corn but corn is cheaper and imported for ration. We used to have meat and bone meals added as well but due to mad cow disease BSE it was prohibited. The fact that whatever grain is cheapest is the one most used only emphasizes the fact that the protein content and amino acid balance are the critical elements of a complete ration aside from vitamins and minerals.

 

[saysfaa]

...Triticale - it is not just my experience - all over my region where triticale is used instead of wheat, chicken are not well. Additionally, as per the little information available about it - it slows down the growth of chicken and is not good for chicks under 2 months of age. With layers - less eggs. It is gluten-free which I don't know if it is good or bad for the chicken.
...

What have others tried to solve the triticale problem with chickens?

Did anything else change at the same time triticale became widespread?

Do you know if triticale is a problem for chickens in other regions too? Or of other regions where triticale has largely replaces wheat?

I believe you - just sometimes one gets correlation without causation. It might be worth considering.

Gluten free or not doesn't matter to the chickens from all I've read but I haven't looked exhaustively. It is odd about triticale being gluten free as it is a cross of wheat and rye and both gave gluten enough to cause problems in people eating it directly who are very sensitive to gluten. Other people who are less sensitive can eat rye although they can't eat wheat. I thought triticale was between them but could be wrong; the friend for whom I learned about gluten sensitivity can't eat rye either so we didn't look there much.

 

[saysfaa]

University of Kentucky says
"...The feeding value of triticale varies by genotype and growing conditions. This may account for the different results reported in the literature. Broilers fed diets in which triticale makes up 30% or more of the content have poorer performance than broilers fed diets with comparable wheat contents. Supplementation with feed enzymes typically increases the performance of broilers on triticale-based diets. Lower levels of triticale inclusion (15%) were shown to have no effect on broiler performance. Others have reported that up to 75% triticale can be used in poultry diets."

Earlier it says ... "As with wheat, triticale contains the antinutritional factor arabinoxylan, and its potential as a feed ingredient is improved by the addition of feed enzymes targeting arabinoxylans."

https://poultry.extension.org/articles/feeds-and-feeding-of-poultry/feed-ingredients-for-poultry/cereals-in-poultry-diets/triticale-in-poultry-diets-2/#:~:text=Others have reported that up to 75% triticale,increased slightly with increasing levels of triticale.

I'll look for more information about arabinoxylans and about feed enzymes and about growing conditions for my own curiosity if nothing else but it might be a while ... I've got snow to shovel this morning and my son is coming home today for a week or so before classes start... unless it is longer because his university goes back to online - evidently quite a few schools are doing that for at least the start of the term.