3 Original breeds to create all the following;

[Tom_DarwinNT]

If i wanted to breed birds that would allow me to have the following outcomes;
White Eggs
Brown Eggs
Blue Eggs
Green/Olive Eggs
Sex Link (Red or Black)
Dual Purpose for all if possible.

How many original breeds of chicken would i need to start with? I understand i would need to start with the Araucana for the blue eggs and for crossing with a white and a brown for different colors but i am unsure which breeds would be best to achieve all my goals with as little as 3 maybe 4 original breeds.
I would line breed for the pure bred heritage birds, cross breed for the sex links and easter/Olive eggers.

What breeds and genetics would work best and would it be possible to start with just 3 different breeds?

I live in Northern Australia in the tropics, so birds that are able to handle warmer temps and handy foragers would also be an advantage for the newly fenced areas.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

I think there are a lot of different breeds that would suit those needs, so you may have to go with trial and error to see what works out best for you. You could pretty easily accomplish this in three breeds, I think, but I don't know what breeds are available to you in Australia, so it's hard for me to make exact recommendations. However, I can explain a few of the genetic components that might help you narrow down your breeds.

Generally speaking, to make what's called black sexlinks, you need a rooster that is not barred and also not dominant white, and hens who are barred, preferrably black barred like Barred Plymouth Rocks or Cuckoo Marans. The barring gene is sexlinked, so hens can only pass it on to their sons. You determine the males from females at hatch by who has the barring head spot in their chick down and who does not. Certain other genes may interfere with how visible that head spot is, like dominant white that I mentioned already, which would make the chick white all over and so you wouldn't be able to tell which ones have a white head spot and which don't. Blue can also make the barring head spot hard to see, so I would avoid using a Blue or Splash rooster for such a cross, too.

Red sexlinks are a bit more complicated because not all chick down will show gold or silver inheritance at hatch. To make them, you need a gold or red-colored male and silver females. Since silver is sexlinked like barring, the silver females only pass the gene to their sons and not their daughters, so you end up with silver-colored male chicks and gold-colored female chicks. But if you use something like Black Copper Marans and Birchen Marans, while they would inherit the genes that way as well, their chick down does not tend to show gold or silver coloring anywhere, so you would not be able to tell which inherited the silver gene and which didn't. If you want to make this kind of sexlink, you have to keep chick down coloring in mind as well. There are a lot of breeds that have these genes, but a lot of combinations that don't actually work to make sexlinks despite that, so it's hard to give you examples here.

This thread has information about making different sexlinked crosses, along with lists of breeds that work together to make them: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/sex-linked-information.261208/

As far as egg color goes, keep in mind that white and blue are the base shell colors. Brown is a coating that is added to the outside of the shell. Putting a brown coating on a blue shell is what makes visually green or olive-colored eggs, depending on how thick of a brown coating is added. But that brown coating is polygenic and tough to breed out once it's been bred into a line, so if you want to be producing pure white and pure blue eggs, you'll want to keep a white-laying breed and a blue-laying breed as two of your pure breeds. Greenish eggs can be produced by crossing any brown egg breed to a blue egg breed. To specifically make olive eggs, you'd breed a dark brown egg breed like Marans to a blue egg breed.

So, I would say that the simplest way to figure out your three breeds is to look at what blue, white, and brown egg laying breeds are available to you in your area, and pick out one of each that you can keep purebred and that also have some of those sexlinked traits you can use to make sexlink crosses between them.

 

[Tom_DarwinNT]

I think there are a lot of different breeds that would suit those needs, so you may have to go with trial and error to see what works out best for you. You could pretty easily accomplish this in three breeds, I think, but I don't know what breeds are available to you in Australia, so it's hard for me to make exact recommendations. However, I can explain a few of the genetic components that might help you narrow down your breeds.

Generally speaking, to make what's called black sexlinks, you need a rooster that is not barred and also not dominant white, and hens who are barred, preferrably black barred like Barred Plymouth Rocks or Cuckoo Marans. The barring gene is sexlinked, so hens can only pass it on to their sons. You determine the males from females at hatch by who has the barring head spot in their chick down and who does not. Certain other genes may interfere with how visible that head spot is, like dominant white that I mentioned already, which would make the chick white all over and so you wouldn't be able to tell which ones have a white head spot and which don't. Blue can also make the barring head spot hard to see, so I would avoid using a Blue or Splash rooster for such a cross, too.

Red sexlinks are a bit more complicated because not all chick down will show gold or silver inheritance at hatch. To make them, you need a gold or red-colored male and silver females. Since silver is sexlinked like barring, the silver females only pass the gene to their sons and not their daughters, so you end up with silver-colored male chicks and gold-colored female chicks. But if you use something like Black Copper Marans and Birchen Marans, while they would inherit the genes that way as well, their chick down does not tend to show gold or silver coloring anywhere, so you would not be able to tell which inherited the silver gene and which didn't. If you want to make this kind of sexlink, you have to keep chick down coloring in mind as well. There are a lot of breeds that have these genes, but a lot of combinations that don't actually work to make sexlinks despite that, so it's hard to give you examples here.

This thread has information about making different sexlinked crosses, along with lists of breeds that work together to make them: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/sex-linked-information.261208/

As far as egg color goes, keep in mind that white and blue are the base shell colors. Brown is a coating that is added to the outside of the shell. Putting a brown coating on a blue shell is what makes visually green or olive-colored eggs, depending on how thick of a brown coating is added. But that brown coating is polygenic and tough to breed out once it's been bred into a line, so if you want to be producing pure white and pure blue eggs, you'll want to keep a white-laying breed and a blue-laying breed as two of your pure breeds. Greenish eggs can be produced by crossing any brown egg breed to a blue egg breed. To specifically make olive eggs, you'd breed a dark brown egg breed like Marans to a blue egg breed.

So, I would say that the simplest way to figure out your three breeds is to look at what blue, white, and brown egg laying breeds are available to you in your area, and pick out one of each that you can keep purebred and that also have some of those sexlinked traits you can use to make sexlink crosses between them.

Thank you for the response! So ideally, to pull of as many egg colour combinations between 3 breeds and to allow for a sex link combination - Cuckoo Maran (Dark brown layer), Araucana (Blue layer), White Leghorn (White layer)
I could then use those 3 to achieve a variety of cross breeds and egg colours? As well as a sex link.
I could substitute the Cuckoo Maran for a barred Plymouth Rock which would achieve similar results but I probably won’t get as dark a colour egg. Would there be any other white layer that would work in place of the Leghorn?

 

[NatJ]

Thank you for the response! So ideally, to pull of as many egg colour combinations between 3 breeds and to allow for a sex link combination - Cuckoo Maran (Dark brown layer), Araucana (Blue layer), White Leghorn (White layer)
I could then use those 3 to achieve a variety of cross breeds and egg colours? As well as a sex link.
I could substitute the Cuckoo Maran for a barred Plymouth Rock which would achieve similar results but I probably won’t get as dark a colour egg. Would there be any other white layer that would work in place of the Leghorn?

White Leghorn will not work for producing sexlinks.

Can you get a Brown Leghorn?
Brown Leghorn rooster x Cuckoo Marans hen will produce one kind of sexlinks (daughters black, sons black with white barring.) Those chicks will lay brown eggs, but a lighter brown than what the Cuckoo Marans lay.

If you can get silver Araucanas (any color with a pattern of silver and black), you could breed hens of them to a Brown Leghorn rooster and get color-sexable chicks (gold daughters, silver sons) that lay blue eggs.

And breeding an Araucana rooster (no barring) to Cuckoo Marans hens would give sexlinked green egg layers (daughters black, sons black with white barring.)

Alternate strategy:
If you can get Silver Spangled Hamburgs, you could use gold-based Araucanas, breed Araucana rooster to Hamburg hen, and get gold/silver sexlinks that lay blue eggs. As long as the Araucanas are not barred, you could still use the Araucana rooster with Cuckoo Marans to get green eggers. And Silver Spangled Hamburg rooster could be crossed with Cuckoo Marans hens to get sexlinks that lay brown eggs (daughters black, sons black with white barring, egg color lighter than what pure Marans lay.)

Have you considered autosexing breeds? Cream Legbars (blue eggs) and Cuckoo Marans (dark brown eggs) are mostly sexable by color when they hatch, without any crossing needed. The males have two barring genes, which cause more white and overall lighter color. Crossing Cream Legbars with Cuckoo Marans will give chicks that can be sexed the same as Cuckoo Marans (and it does not matter which parent is from which breed.) Those chicks should lay green eggs.

You mentioned wanting dual-purpose chickens. There are not many dual-purpose chickens that lay white eggs. You might look for Dorkings. Or consider some of the larger Mediterranean breeds, like MInorcas.

 

[Tom_DarwinNT]

White Leghorn will not work for producing sexlinks.

Can you get a Brown Leghorn?
Brown Leghorn rooster x Cuckoo Marans hen will produce one kind of sexlinks (daughters black, sons black with white barring.) Those chicks will lay brown eggs, but a lighter brown than what the Cuckoo Marans lay.

If you can get silver Araucanas (any color with a pattern of silver and black), you could breed hens of them to a Brown Leghorn rooster and get color-sexable chicks (gold daughters, silver sons) that lay blue eggs.

And breeding an Araucana rooster (no barring) to Cuckoo Marans hens would give sexlinked green egg layers (daughters black, sons black with white barring.)

Alternate strategy:
If you can get Silver Spangled Hamburgs, you could use gold-based Araucanas, breed Araucana rooster to Hamburg hen, and get gold/silver sexlinks that lay blue eggs. As long as the Araucanas are not barred, you could still use the Araucana rooster with Cuckoo Marans to get green eggers. And Silver Spangled Hamburg rooster could be crossed with Cuckoo Marans hens to get sexlinks that lay brown eggs (daughters black, sons black with white barring, egg color lighter than what pure Marans lay.)

Have you considered autosexing breeds? Cream Legbars (blue eggs) and Cuckoo Marans (dark brown eggs) are mostly sexable by color when they hatch, without any crossing needed. The males have two barring genes, which cause more white and overall lighter color. Crossing Cream Legbars with Cuckoo Marans will give chicks that can be sexed the same as Cuckoo Marans (and it does not matter which parent is from which breed.) Those chicks should lay green eggs.

You mentioned wanting dual-purpose chickens. There are not many dual-purpose chickens that lay white eggs. You might look for Dorkings. Or consider some of the larger Mediterranean breeds, like MInorcas.

Thank you for the detailed response! I’m starting to wonder if I’m better off to start with a Cuckoo Maran, an Araucana strain and a cream egg laying strain like an Australorp. That way I could breed a commercial laying sex link and I would still be able to produce a variety of coloured eggs? I could add some Anconas down the track to help with the breed and to get the white eggs.

 

[NatJ]

Thank you for the detailed response! I’m starting to wonder if I’m better off to start with a Cuckoo Maran, an Araucana strain and a cream egg laying strain like an Australorp. That way I could breed a commercial laying sex link and I would still be able to produce a variety of coloured eggs? I could add some Anconas down the track to help with the breed and to get the white eggs.

Yes, that plan would probably work pretty well.

Did you want to do sexlinks in several egg colors, or just one? I was thinking you wanted sexlinks with several different egg colors, so I was trying to think of sets of 3 breeds that could make sexlinks or autosexing chicks in all directions.

 

[Tom_DarwinNT]

Yes, that plan would probably work pretty well.

Did you want to do sexlinks in several egg colors, or just one? I was thinking you wanted sexlinks with several different egg colors, so I was trying to think of sets of 3 breeds that could make sexlinks or autosexing chicks in all directions.

No, I would just like the ability to breed a commercial laying bird (sex linked, like a black star or cinnamon queen etc) for any colour egg to offer to people only interested in hardy egg layers that are 95% guaranteed to be hens. But at the same time be able to produce an assortment of egg colours from the same 3 birds.
They don’t all need to be sex linked, as I would like to build on the heritage lines through line breeding and also play with my own breeds in the future…. Hope that makes sense.
Another thing is I would rather my commercial layer be a black star type or just a different colour to the brown hens (isa browns etc) as they are readily available here already.
I really like Plymouth rocks and my wife loves Laced Wyandottes but I understand I would probably need to swap the barred rock for the cuckoo Maran to achieve the darker eggs and I don’t think there is any way to make the Wyandotte work with what I am trying to achieve.

I know this is all very convoluted and I really really appreciate the insightful responses!

 

[NatJ]

No, I would just like the ability to breed a commercial laying bird (sex linked, like a black star or cinnamon queen etc) for any colour egg to offer to people only interested in hardy egg layers that are 95% guaranteed to be hens. But at the same time be able to produce an assortment of egg colours from the same 3 birds.
They don’t all need to be sex linked, as I would like to build on the heritage lines through line breeding and also play with my own breeds in the future…. Hope that makes sense.
Another thing is I would rather my commercial layer be a black star type or just a different colour to the brown hens (isa browns etc) as they are readily available here already.
I really like Plymouth rocks and my wife loves Laced Wyandottes but I understand I would probably need to swap the barred rock for the cuckoo Maran to achieve the darker eggs and I don’t think there is any way to make the Wyandotte work with what I am trying to achieve.

I know this is all very convoluted and I really really appreciate the insightful responses!

Barred Rocks are probably better layers than Cuckoo Marans, so your sexlinks might lay better if they have Barred Rock mothers instead. I don't know whether darker eggs (Marans-mix) or more eggs (probably from Rock-mix) will be better for your purposes.

Silver Laced Wyandottes could be the mothers of gold/silver sexlinks: either use a Gold Laced Wyandotte rooster (chicks will have lacing), or use any other rooster with the gold gene. The chicks have so much black at hatching that it might be hard to tell males from females, but once they grow some feathers it should be pretty easy. Depending on how young you want to sell them, that may or may not matter.

A Silver Laced Wyandotte could also be the father of Black Sexlinks, when crossed with Cuckoo Marans or Barred Rocks (because the laced Wyandottes do not have barring, and the Cuckoo or Barred hens do, and the chicks will be black so it is easy to tell which are the males with barring and which are the females without.)

Of course if you add Wyandottes that makes a fourth breed, which isn't good if you already picked three and don't want more.

 

[Tom_DarwinNT]

Barred Rocks are probably better layers than Cuckoo Marans, so your sexlinks might lay better if they have Barred Rock mothers instead. I don't know whether darker eggs (Marans-mix) or more eggs (probably from Rock-mix) will be better for your purposes.

Silver Laced Wyandottes could be the mothers of gold/silver sexlinks: either use a Gold Laced Wyandotte rooster (chicks will have lacing), or use any other rooster with the gold gene. The chicks have so much black at hatching that it might be hard to tell males from females, but once they grow some feathers it should be pretty easy. Depending on how young you want to sell them, that may or may not matter.

A Silver Laced Wyandotte could also be the father of Black Sexlinks, when crossed with Cuckoo Marans or Barred Rocks (because the laced Wyandottes do not have barring, and the Cuckoo or Barred hens do, and the chicks will be black so it is easy to tell which are the males with barring and which are the females without.)

Of course if you add Wyandottes that makes a fourth breed, which isn't good if you already picked three and don't want more.

Ok that is interesting, if i can use silver laced Wyandotte and Barred rocks to create a black sex link I think I’d like to try that. At least I will be dealing with breeds I would love to keep and breed. If i try find some darker laying rocks and some lighter laying Wyandotte I should be able to get a nice mix of egg colours with the Araucana as well. I might expand with a white layer in the future.
I assume the Barred rock x Silver laced Wyandotte would be a decent dual purpose bird?

 

[saysfaa]

If you are still considering Australorps, their eggs aren't necessarily cream. I have gotten a few that were quite a light shade of tan but most are medium brown. These are the last seven eggs my Australorps have laid.