55 flowery hen 'recipe'?

[Aziara]

55 flowery hens are gorgeous, but I really don't like the leghorn personality, or the fact that they are unlikely to set. So I would like to recreate the sex-linked color with other breeds.
I found some info on other threads about their genetics:

1. Sex-linked Barring (B);
2. Sex-linked Silver (S);
3. Sex-linked Fast-feathering (k+).

and:

Silver 55 male- B/B, S/S, k+/k+, e+/e+, mo/mo
Silver 55 female- B/-, S/-, k+/-, e+/e+, mo/mo
Gold 55 male- B/B, s+/s+, k+/k+, e+/e+, mo/mo
Gold 55 female- B/-, s+/-, k+/-, e+/e+, mo/mo

What other breeds have these traits? I'm hoping to create a Speckled Sussex based sex-linked flowery-type breed. A Flowery Sussex, if you will.
Also, am I correct in assuming that the color is simply the same autosex coloration as a legbar + the mottling gene?
My end goal is a low-maintenance dual purpose that is a good forager and good setter, with a calm and friendly disposition.

 

[nicalandia]

55 flowery hens are gorgeous, but I really don't like the leghorn personality, or the fact that they are unlikely to set. So I would like to recreate the sex-linked color with other breeds.
I found some info on other threads about their genetics:

and:

What other breeds have these traits? I'm hoping to create a Speckled Sussex based sex-linked flowery-type breed. A Flowery Sussex, if you will.
Also, am I correct in assuming that the color is simply the same autosex coloration as a legbar + the mottling gene?
My end goal is a low-maintenance dual purpose that is a good forager and good setter, with a calm and friendly disposition.

Correct, the good news is that you already have recessive mottling and the e+ wiltype e allele found on sex linked breeds like Rhodebars, Legbars, all you need is to source the sex linked barring gene and to be honest you can source it from any breed, Barred rock would be my best bet, the f1s will be mostly black barred and with genetic make up E/e+ S/s+ Mo+/mo B/b+, take the best male and cross it back to your Speckled Sussex and look look for e+/e+ mo/mo B/ s+/ females

 

[EggWalrus]

You're above my head with that Jr.

 

[The Moonshiner]

You are correct that they are like legbars plus mottling minus cream.
Fast feathering is irrelevant.
As for sex linked silver. GFF sells mostly gold based but also some silver based.
Speckled sussex has mahogany and columbian that you would need to breed out and you would have to breed in barring.

As for legbars and rhodebars they have barring but not mottling.
If you don't like leghorns you should stay away from legbars.
As for dual purpose and broody. I have 55s, rhodebars, barred rocks and have had legbars. None of those breeds have been broody for me.
You will not get what you need by simply breeding speckled sussex to barred anything and then back to the sussex.
And of course rhodebars and legbars are barred so breeding them to barred rocks isn't getting you anywheres.
All you need is wild type e+, barring and mottling. And of course dual purpose and broody.
I'd have to think about it when I have more time and try to think of a game plan of what I would use.
I think you're well informed and know what you need but can tell you from experience when you bring in breeds with columbian, mahogany etc it isn't just an easy cross then back breed.
You can probably get there in two maybe three generations if you want to play the odds and hatch a few hundred chicks.

 

[nicalandia]

I'm hoping to create a Speckled Sussex based sex-linked flowery-type breed. A Flowery Sussex, if you will.

Going with the OP statement what he/she is basically wanting is a Flowery type speckled sussex, and as I have mentioned earlier Speckled Sussex already have the wild type e+ e allele and the recessive mottling gene(e+, mo), other genes like Columbian, Mahogany and sex linked gold(Co, Mh, s+) will not affect the autosexing trait, Rhodebars are proof of that, so all that is required is the sex linked barring gene.

Genetic make up of 55 Flowery pattern is e+/e+, mo/mo, s+/s+ (gold based) B/B(B/- for females)

Genetic Make up for the Speckled pattern, e+/e+ mo/mo s+/s+ b+/b+(b+/- for females) Co/Co, Mh/Mh.

So if you take a look at both genotypes, Speckled Sussex is only missing the sex linked barring gene, and that is why I pointed out that the source of the sex linked barring gene is really not that crucial, but if she has access to dual purpose autosexing breeds like Bielefelder, Rhodebars that would help greatly, specially good quality Rhodebars.


This is a Rhodebar male from my friend Michael, double barred, Mahogany Columbian restricted

 

[nicalandia]

How to introduce the sex linked barring gene without affecting the Sussex type will be required

Here is my example using a Rhodebar.

This cross would yield Rhodebar looking females(red columbian barred) and Single barred Rhodebar looking males, both progeny will have recessive mottling hidden, you can take the best looking males and cross them back to Speckled Sussex, only about 25% of the total progeny will be single barred and mottled, 25% will be mottled, 25% will be single barred and 25% Red Columbian so hatching at least 100 will be advised

You can use the chicken calculator and input the known genetics
http://kippenjungle.nl/kruising.html

 

[The Moonshiner]

You post reads as if you were saying rhodebars and legbars have mottling and would need barring added.
Guess we're reading OPs goal differently also.
I'm reading it as a speckled sussex as a starting point breed but they want finished product to be same pattern as 55s.
I know rhodebars and in theory or on paper they seem easy enough but I can tell you they aren't.
Yes they're proof it can work as autosexing but many times it doesn't.
I had them from two sources and dropped them all because they weren't reliably sexable at hatch.
I also made my own and still have a few. They are reliable still 7 generations later.
100 chicks will get you hardly anywhere with them in the second generation.
Its not so easy to get everything back together so if OP wants to eliminate the genes that aren't needed to be same pattern as 55s that will be the same issue.
Getting birds with what they need but without the extras.
Sure if they're just wanting an autosexing breed with mottling that's a bigger range of options so it would be easier.

 

[The Moonshiner]

Oh and the calculator is great for getting the expected percentages but when it says I have a 25% chance come hatch days it always seems to be more like I get 10% of what I wanted and a ton of what I didn't need at all.

 

[nicalandia]

You post reads as if you were saying rhodebars and legbars have mottling and would need barring added.
Guess we're reading OPs goal differently also.

Speckled Sussex is the one that has e+ and mottling so adding sex linked barring will be required, I believe the OP wants a a pattern close to 55 flowery hen, but on a Speckled Sussex background, also I would like to point out that genes like Columbian, Mahogany mottling, Columbian have no effect of on the autosexing traits of the chicks.

 

[Aziara]

I've been messing around with the calculator, looks like my best bet is continually crossing Speckled Sussex into an already autosexing breed, such as a Bielefelder. Most of the crosses would be attempting to remove the Columbian gene... it doesn't look like the Mahogany gene hurts the pattern.. perhaps just adding in a red cast--which might be really pretty.
I have one Bielefelder, she is a real sweety, but she only lays 2 eggs a week, she really seems to suffer in the heat, and it took her over 8 months to start laying. So I really want to create a sweet-natured autosex breed that is much more productive. It might be easier to forget about the mottling altogether and add in a duckwing/wildtype chicken instead...
What's hilarious is the chicken calculator doesn't have a picture for the Flowery pattern-- I'm assuming it's the 'black patterned gold duckwing barred pied/mottled'? And silver would be 'black patterned silver duckwing barred pied/mottled'
I can get a 'black patterned red duckwing barred pied/mottled' eventually out of crossing the Sussex to Bielefelder... not much Sussex left at that point though--something like only 20%.

EDIT: It actually looks like the easiest way is to abandon the Sussex and use a mottled black chicken, such as Mottled Java. I could get the color I'm looking for on the 2f generation...*sigh* I really like Sussex though.