55 flowery hen 'recipe'?

[The Moonshiner]

Yes you're correct.
Probably have zero luck finding welbars but they would be a great option.
Wellsummer have mahogany so look at them compared to brown leghorn and you can see what mahogany brings into that mix.

 

[Aziara]

Ok, I've got it!
Mottled Java Roo + Bielefelder hen = Barred recessive-mottled Roo & Black Recessive-mottled hen.
Barred recessive-mottled Roo + Bielefelder hen = Barred, black, gold duckwing, & barred duckwing-some with recessive mottling...
Put all those barred duckwings together, set tons of those eggs in hopes that some of the recessives find each other attractive, lol. That should give me the Flowery color. They would be 75% Bielefelder & 25% Mottled Java.
The process for getting sussex in there (If i decide to do so) would be similar:
Flowery Bielefelder/Java Roo + Specked Sussex hen = black patterned red incomplete-millefleur barred hen & black patterned red millefleur barred roo
Choose either and breed back to the Flowery = some will be Flowery, and now 1/4 Sussex!
Done over and over, brings it up to 5/8...then 3/4...then 7/8... then 15/16...then 31/32.
This brings up another question though-At what percentage could a chicken be considered 'pure'? I know with some animals, 15/16 is considered 'grade', or 'nearly pure'. Basically, at what point could I call it a 'Flowery Sussex?'
Or should I just be content to have created a whole new breed out of 3 others?

 

[nicalandia]

EDIT: It actually looks like the easiest way is to abandon the Sussex and use a mottled black chicken, such as Mottled Java. I could get the color I'm looking for on the 2f generation...*sigh* I really like Sussex though.

Ok, I've got it!
Mottled Java Roo + Bielefelder hen = Barred recessive-mottled Roo & Black Recessive-mottled hen.
Barred recessive-mottled Roo + Bielefelder hen = Barred, black, gold duckwing, & barred duckwing-some with recessive mottling...
Put all those barred duckwings together, set tons of those eggs in hopes that some of the recessives find each other attractive, lol.

I believe you are too confused at this time, first why are you abandoning the Speckled Sussex background? Why getting rid of Columbian? Columbian has not effect on the Autosexing traits of the chicks.

Why the use of Mottle Java?

Bielefelder Rooster x Speckled Sussex Hen = e+/e+, Co/co+ s+/s+ B/b+(for males, B/- for pullets) Mo+/mo(non mottled but with hidden recessive).

You take the best rooster and cross it back to Speckled Sussex will give you e+/e+ B/- mo/mo hens(50% of pullets) you will be able to see what Barring and Mottling will look for the females and how B/b+ mo/mo males look too

 

[The Moonshiner]

Hmm, because they doesn't want a columbian patterned bird?
Seems they have a goal in mind which isn't about just making something auto sexing but a certain pattern which doesn't include columbian.

 

[Aziara]

I believe you are too confused at this time, first why are you abandoning the Speckled Sussex background? Why getting rid of Columbian? Columbian has not effect on the Autosexing traits of the chicks.

Wait wait wait... You're telling me that a barred mottled columbian would be autosexed??
I thought it had to be barring on top of the duckwing/wildtype?

 

[Aziara]

Bah! I'm an idiot!
The f2 of sussex roo to bielefelder hen does create bielefelder colors with recessive mottling!
How did I miss that?? Arg...

On a side note, is there any way to tell a double factor roo from a single barred gene roo?

 

[nicalandia]

Wait wait wait... You're telling me that a barred mottled columbian would be autosexed??

I've been trying to get that point across since I started posting on this thread, Speckled Sussex has all of the genes required for your goal, except sex linked barring, introducing the sex linked barring gene from an Autosexing breed would be the best approach since they have e+ and B/B already, using a Rooster over your Speckled Sussex hens would be best.


Single barred males will be much darker than double barred males,

Here is a F1 from a Rhodebar x RIR

Double barred Rhodebar

 

[Aziara]

I've been trying to get that point across since I started posting on this thread

Wow... I feel really dense now, I completely missed you saying that. Sorry about that.
But that is certainly good news! It means I'm closer than I thought.

 

[Aziara]

Thanks everyone for all your help, I've got a game plan now.
Does anyone know at what percentage of Sussex I can call it a Sussex and not a cross? 7/8? 15/16? Or 31/32 or more?

 

[The Moonshiner]

Chickens don't work like that.
If they fit the breed standard then they're that breed no matter whether they're 1/4 or 31/32 or whatever.
They're wouldn't be a variety of the sussex to fit your bird though.