5th chick dying in my hands right now - help!

I wouldn't be adding any more chickens to your flock, its obvious you have a highly contagious disease going through your flock and will continue to kill off your birds. Any that does survive will be carriers. It is probably best to cull them all and find out what is going on, then start over fresh. I know you love your birds, sorry if I sound harsh. I would not want to be in your position.

How did some of the necropsy results turn out that was done earlier?


No not harsh - its something I consider every day. But, only a few diseases actually create "carriers" out of the bird from what I have been told by the Texas A & M vet as well as all the reading I've been doing for months now :/ The necropsy was inconclusive on all 8 birds. He said they had pneumonia but that it could be caused by so many different things it didn't really help. He tried doing a culture but that also apparently didn't answer anything. He would like me to send another bird, and I had intended to but have a hard time deciding where to invest the $ when hubby hasn't worked since November 4th or so and all the cancer bills are coming in. In spite of all this, my laying hens just keep on laying. They took a quick break to molt but other wise are laying well and I even have new ones laying. It doesn't seem to effect them once they are of age to lay :idunno And - another weird thing. I have a separate coop on the other side of the house where I put my brooder babies when they were a month old. In spite of the close proximity and far less than perfect procedures none of the 17 birds on the other side have caught "it". But there were 3 roosters on that side that started bullying everyone and I had to move them out to the main coop. Within a week they caught "it" too and have runny noses.

It doesn't seem contagious enough to be any of the serious viruses, abx haven't done anything so doesn't seem to be bacterial either, it seems to be environmental. Anytime I stir up the earth trying to clean really well I think a new round of sickness starts. I spent the last 3 days totally gutting it and turning it into a cote to get them all up off the ground. I am thinking of trying to bring in sand to cover the floor but I don't know if that would really help. I have given up all my plans of breeding for now and will just have them as a giant breakfast flock, although another interesting aspect of all this is the fact that the eggs and chicks are perfectly healthy - 100% hatch rates nearly every time I hatched my own eggs :idunno

Here it so far - its a 12 x 21 carport with a solid coop in the center which has been converted into a nesting area for the layers. The bottom was removed with roosts added and poop hammocks are underneath as well as all the high roosts I built. Some of the smaller birds still want to roost inside it at night so I am letting them but training them to go up higher soon. Tomorrow I am getting my 7 year old to help me chase all the chickens out and we are going to try to get back down to bare dirt everywhere in there. The blue tarp at the end leads to a run which they really don't use anymore since they free range all day.

1000
 
Weird, was the area a carport before you turned it into a chicken coop? Did the vets think they would have caught something fungal when they did the necropsys on the birds they did? Did they ever actually come up with an answer to anything they were sure was inffecting any of the birds (realizing there was more than one thing going on with most of them?) There has been no consistency as to breeds, ages etc of what birds have been affected?
 
Weird, was the area a carport before you turned it into a chicken coop? Did the vets think they would have caught something fungal when they did the necropsys on the birds they did? Did they ever actually come up with an answer to anything they were sure was inffecting any of the birds (realizing there was more than one thing going on with most of them?) There has been no consistency as to breeds, ages etc of what birds have been affected?


Nope, we have 3 1/2 acres and it was just grass and dirt before. No one had lived on the land for at least 7 years prior to that, but it is possible someone built something there before as it is the only somewhat level spot on our windy hillside. We have an established stock tank that is in the back of the property and while none of our chickens venture that far we do have every migrating flock that passes through town stopping in there, plus two pairs of hawks, great blue herons, wild ducks etc. So the possibility for something brought by wild birds is also high.

The vet really didn't seem to know, but thought odds were best that it was bacterial so he recommended first Tylan which we did with no results. After 8 necropsies were done he again suspected bacterial and recommended Speclink (SP?) which we did again with no results. We also tried Corid just incase - no results. He feels very strongly that it isn't viral since the rate of spread is way too slow and it hasn't even managed to go to the other side of the house. I am grasping at straws here, and have been considering aspergillosis because I read on one UK site that it has previously been known to cause a swollen eye but ONLY on one side which is consistent with what I've had - and not all birds will present with the same signs - also what I have. Some though rarely will exhibit neurological symptoms - again some here, most will have severe respiratory issues and sinus infection - what I have the most of. I have not found the source though. I have been assuming it is somewhere in the coop but the closest I've come was a small maybe moldy patch under the 200 gallon feed barrel when I moved it today - but they couldn't even get under there :/ I was thinking today that I should go check the garden - they love digging around in there and there could absolutely be mold growing in all the old straw and hay that was SUPPOSED to grow potatoes but didn't. Aspergillus grows readily in any damp bedding, straw, feed etc and apparently is often already present in the grains and feed when you buy it :(

My morbidity is at least 50% with chicks/young juvies and most remaining are male. My morbidity with young adults/adults is very low - of the 60+ dead only I think 5 or so were older and a mix of both genders - but never anyone who was already laying. From the time spores are released (like each time there is a rain storm causing a "bloom" I guess) the incubation period is supposed to be 2 - 5 days and I have previously correlated new sickness with precipitation.

From http://www.thepoultrysite.com/diseaseinfo/7/aspergillosis (One of many references I've read)

A fungal infectious disease, caused by Aspergillus fumigatus, in which the typical sign is gasping for breath, especially in young chicks. Sometimes the same organism causes eye lesions or chronic lesions in older birds. The fungus can infect plant material and many species of animals including birds and man. Occasionally similar lesions are produced by other species of Aspergillus or even other fungi such as Penicillium, Absidia etc.

It affects chickens, turkeys, ducks, penguins, game birds, waterfowl, etc, worldwide. The infection has an incubation period of 2-5 days. Morbidity is usually low, but may be as high as 12%. Mortality among young affected birds is 5-50%. Transmission is by inhalation exposure to an environment with a high spore count; there is usually little bird-to-bird transmission. Spores are highly resistant to disinfectants.

Signs

Acute form:
Inappetance.
Weakness.
Silent gasping.
Rapid breathing.
Thirst.
Drowsiness.
Nervous signs (rare).
Chronic Forms:
Ocular discharge (ocular form only).
Wasting.
Post-mortem lesions

Yellow to grey nodules or plaques in lungs, air sacs, trachea, plaques in peritoneal cavity, may have greenish surface.
Conjunctivitis/keratitis.
Brain lesions may be seen in some birds with nervous signs.
Diagnosis

This is usually based on the signs and lesions and microscopic examination for the fungus, preferably after digestion in 10% potassium hydroxide. It may be confirmed by isolation of the fungus, typically by putting small pieces of affected tissue on Sabouraud agar. Growth occurs in 24-48 hours and colonies are powdery green/blue in appearance. Differentiate from excessive exposure to formalin or vaccinal reactions in day olds and from heat stress in older birds.

Treatment

Usually none. Environmental spraying with effective antifungal antiseptic may help reduce challenge. Amphotericin B and Nystatin have been used in high-value birds.

Prevention

Dry, good quality litter and feed, hygiene, Thiabendazole or Nystatin has been used in feed.

So the bad news is that if it is Aspergillosis, those that have it can't theoretically be helped. Although I don't buy that and will be trying things like gentian violet and alkalizing their pH after I try the Denagard if it doesn't turn out to be the cure.

Sorry for the novel - I hope I at least answered all the questions, LOL!
 
Don't use sand, here is an article.
http://www.fresh-eggs-daily.com/2013/07/the-real-scoop-on-using-sand-in-your.html

Is there enough ventilation in their coops. Think of how our homes are vented. I would be worried about the birds being to high and getting injured jumping down. You definitely have a lot to deal with it.


Thanks for the article - it didn't really make sense to me either, but I am trying so hard to find THE perfect way to care for them :) Ventilation is great, It is enclosed with only fencing except when its cold they have tarps covering them, but with plenty of openings left to allow plenty of ventilation without making it windy or too cold. I am not concerned with it being too high - its only about 6 feet and they have multiple levels to use to get there. Plus prior to this I had 3 other coops in there that I built for them with roosts inside. Every last one of them except the chicks preferred sleeping on top of the coops which were 6 feet high - and they got to them without any help. So I tore apart all the other coops and consolidated them into strictly roosts at the same height which opened up all that floor space for easy cleaning and lots of room for everyone. Before it was like claustrophobic maze :/ The wall I had behind me while taking the picture opens completely and I swing it all the way out on nice enough days so they get lots of fresh air and are encouraged to go out and forage. I love my chickens so much, it is kind of ridiculous... well everyone except my Delaware rooster who is currently in a timeout coop outside for being a big jerk to the smaller juvies. I handle all of them a lot and many come running to me and climb in my lap or on my shoulder. They are definitely part of the family and I know the individual personality of every single chicken. Just deciding to slaughter them will be my last choice for sure. I want to give them every chance to make it through this. There will have to be a lot roos culled eventually though once they are big enough. Nearly all my young ones are male now. That will be hard because they are super sweet... but I can do what has to be done when it has to be. Normally I would offer them to others but with these issues no birds will leave my yard, period.

Another novel... sorry, LOL! I need a glass of mead... :D
 
Avian Biotech does test for it, don't know how valuable the $25 test would be, might be worth talking to them about it?
http://www.avianbiotech.com/Index.htm http://www.avianbiotech.com/diseases/aspergillosis.htm
People wise, it does sound like something that should be checked up on, if you have a high environmental spore count in for whatever reason, especially with your husband undergoing chemo.
With the chickens, it still sounds like it is potentially another opportunistic infection going along with the coccidia etc, and hitting birds that are already sick from something else?... You've wound up with the perfect storm of three or four things going around at once?
 
A full necropsy should have had cultures and sensitivities done on all 8, did the vet not do those? I could see inconclusive findings without, but but not if you had cultures done.

-Kathy
 
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