A century of Turkey talk 2000-2100.

[R2elk]

My biggest problem with turkeys is that I have chickens, and from what I've read, it's not smart to keep them together because of blackhead.

If Blackhead is a known issue where you live then you are correct. There are many areas (in particular sandy soil) where Blackhead is not an issue. You can contact your local agriculture extension agent to find out if Blackhead is a problem in the your area.

I live on a sand dune and Blackhead has never been a problem for me. I do keep chickens and turkeys together without any problems.

 

[duluthralphie]

My biggest problem with turkeys is that I have chickens, and from what I've read, it's not smart to keep them together because of blackhead.

That depends on your soil type and if you have blackhead in the area, I have both and have never had a problem.

 

[duluthralphie]

@duluthralphie

Interesting that the one and only color of turkey that is homozygous for all of the dominant color genes is the Self Blue. Choosing a mate with three homozygous recessive color genes will produce an offspring that when crossed with its sibling will be able to produce 27 different varieties. If you could find a variety that has four homozygous recessive color genes, the offspring from that pairing would be able to produce up to 54 different varieties.

I have been playing with that calculator, trying to see if I could find you in error....I cannot. I have never thought of that before.

What is the effect of Dominant and Recessive N on a self blue? I can not find a decent explanation. It says light tipped self blue, but no pictures or description that I could find.

 

[duluthralphie]

I am not sure what I did,,BUT by running this I think I broke the caculator..


Bb1 Cc Dd Ee Nn rr Slsl Spsp Pnpn
Rusty Self BlueColor Semi- Semi-Slate Semi-Pencilled
split: Black Winged Bronze(b1) White(c) Brown(e) Narragansett(n) Recessive Slate(sl) Spotted(sp) | Bb Ccg Dd e- n- Rr Slsl Spsp Pnpn
Rusty Self BlueColor Semi-Marbled Slate Semi- Semi- Brown Semi- Semi-Pencilled
split: Bronze(b) Recessive Slate(sl) Spotted(sp)

 

[duluthralphie]

OK too much time on the Calculator::

but:


Bb1 Ccg Dd Ee Rr
Rusty SlateColor Semi-Gray Semi-
split: Black Winged Bronze(b1) Brown(e) | Bb Cc Dd Rr
Rusty SlateColor Semi-












00.09765625 Female Auburn
00.09765625 Female AuburnSemi-Color
00.09765625 Female AuburnSemi-Color Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Female AuburnSemi-Color Semi-Gray Semi-Slate Semi-Slate
00.09765625 Female AuburnSemi-Color Semi-Gray Slate
00.1953125 Female AuburnSemi-Color Semi-Slate Semi-Slate
00.09765625 Female AuburnSemi-Color Slate
00.09765625 Female AuburnSemi-Gray
00.1953125 Female AuburnSemi-Gray Semi-Slate Semi-Slate
00.09765625 Female AuburnSemi-Gray Slate
00.1953125 Female AuburnSemi-Slate Semi-Slate
00.1953125 Female Barred Black
00.390625 Male Barred Black
00.1953125 Female Barred Black Semi-Color
00.390625 Male Barred Black Semi-Color
00.1953125 Female Barred Chocolate
00.1953125 Female Barred ChocolateSemi-Color
00.1953125 Female Barred ChocolateSemi-Color Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Female Barred ChocolateSemi-Gray
00.1953125 Female Barred Self Blue
00.390625 Male Barred Self Blue
00.1953125 Female Barred Self Blue Semi-Color
00.390625 Male Barred Self Blue Semi-Color
00.1953125 Female Barred Self Blue Semi-Color Semi-Gray
00.390625 Male Barred Self Blue Semi-Color Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Female Barred Self Blue Semi-Gray
00.390625 Male Barred Self Blue Semi-Gray
00.390625 Female Barred Slate
00.78125 Male Barred Slate
00.390625 Female Barred SlateSemi-Color
00.78125 Male Barred SlateSemi-Color
00.390625 Female Barred SlateSemi-Gray
00.78125 Male Barred SlateSemi-Gray
00.09765625 Female Black
00.1953125 Male Black
00.09765625 Female Black Semi-Color
00.1953125 Male Black Semi-Color
00.09765625 Female Black Semi-Color Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Male Black Semi-Color Semi-Gray
00.09765625 Female Black Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Male Black Semi-Gray
00.78125 Female Blue Red Bronze
01.5625 Male Blue Red Bronze
00.09765625 Female Bourbon Red
00.1953125 Male Bourbon Red
00.09765625 Female Bourbon RedBrown
00.09765625 Female Bronze
00.1953125 Male Bronze
00.09765625 Female Bronze Semi-Color
00.1953125 Male Bronze Semi-Color
00.09765625 Female Bronze Semi-Color Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Male Bronze Semi-Color Semi-Gray
00.09765625 Female Bronze Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Male Bronze Semi-Gray
00.09765625 Female Brown Lilac
00.09765625 Female Chocolate
00.09765625 Female Chocolate Semi-Color
00.09765625 Female Chocolate Semi-Color Semi-Gray
00.09765625 Female Chocolate Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Female Chocolate Slate
00.1953125 Female Chocolate SlateColor Semi-
00.1953125 Female Chocolate SlateColor Semi-Gray Semi-
00.1953125 Female Chocolate SlateGray Semi-
00.09765625 Female Jersey Buff
00.1953125 Male Jersey Buff
00.09765625 Female Jersey Buff Brown
00.1953125 Female Jersey Buff Brown Semi-
00.1953125 Female Jersey Buff Semi-
00.390625 Male Jersey Buff Semi-
00.09765625 Female Jersey Buff Semi-Color
00.1953125 Male Jersey Buff Semi-Color
00.09765625 Female Jersey Buff Semi-Color Brown
00.1953125 Female Jersey Buff Semi-Color Brown Semi-
00.1953125 Female Jersey Buff Semi-Color Semi-
00.390625 Male Jersey Buff Semi-Color Semi-
00.09765625 Female Jersey Buff Semi-Color Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Male Jersey Buff Semi-Color Semi-Gray
00.09765625 Female Jersey Buff Semi-Color Semi-Gray Brown
00.1953125 Female Jersey Buff Semi-Color Semi-Gray Brown Semi-
00.1953125 Female Jersey Buff Semi-Color Semi-Gray Semi-
00.390625 Male Jersey Buff Semi-Color Semi-Gray Semi-
00.09765625 Female Jersey Buff Semi-Color Semi-Gray Slate
00.1953125 Male Jersey Buff Semi-Color Semi-Gray Slate
00.09765625 Female Jersey Buff Semi-Color Semi-Gray Slate Brown
00.1953125 Female Jersey Buff Semi-Color Semi-Gray Slate Brown Semi-
00.1953125 Female Jersey Buff Semi-Color Semi-Gray Slate Semi-
00.390625 Male Jersey Buff Semi-Color Semi-Gray Slate Semi-
00.09765625 Female Jersey Buff Semi-Color Slate
00.1953125 Male Jersey Buff Semi-Color Slate
00.09765625 Female Jersey Buff Semi-Color Slate Brown
00.1953125 Female Jersey Buff Semi-Color Slate Brown Semi-
00.1953125 Female Jersey Buff Semi-Color Slate Semi-
00.390625 Male Jersey Buff Semi-Color Slate Semi-
00.09765625 Female Jersey Buff Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Male Jersey Buff Semi-Gray
00.09765625 Female Jersey Buff Semi-Gray Brown
00.1953125 Female Jersey Buff Semi-Gray Brown Semi-
00.1953125 Female Jersey Buff Semi-Gray Semi-
00.390625 Male Jersey Buff Semi-Gray Semi-
00.09765625 Female Jersey Buff Semi-Gray Slate
00.1953125 Male Jersey Buff Semi-Gray Slate
00.09765625 Female Jersey Buff Semi-Gray Slate Brown
00.1953125 Female Jersey Buff Semi-Gray Slate Brown Semi-
00.1953125 Female Jersey Buff Semi-Gray Slate Semi-
00.390625 Male Jersey Buff Semi-Gray Slate Semi-
00.09765625 Female Jersey Buff Slate
00.1953125 Male Jersey Buff Slate
00.09765625 Female Jersey Buff Slate Brown
00.1953125 Female Jersey Buff Slate Brown Semi-
00.1953125 Female Jersey Buff Slate Semi-
00.390625 Male Jersey Buff Slate Semi-
00.09765625 Female Lavender Edged Bourbon Red
00.1953125 Male Lavender Edged Bourbon Red
00.09765625 Female Lavender Edged Bourbon Red Brown
00.1953125 Female Lavender Edged Red Auburn
00.1953125 Female Lavender Red Bronze
00.390625 Male Lavender Red Bronze
00.09765625 Female Light Self Blue
00.09765625 Female Light Self Blue Semi-Color
00.09765625 Female Light Self Blue Semi-Color Semi-Gray
00.09765625 Female Light Self Blue Semi-Gray
00.09765625 Female Lilac
00.1953125 Male Lilac
00.09765625 Female Lilac Semi-Color
00.1953125 Male Lilac Semi-Color
00.09765625 Female Lilac Semi-Color Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Male Lilac Semi-Color Semi-Gray
00.09765625 Female Lilac Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Male Lilac Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Female Red Auburn
00.390625 Female Red Bronze
00.78125 Male Red Bronze
00.09765625 Female Red BronzeColor
00.1953125 Male Red BronzeColor
00.09765625 Female Red BronzeColor Brown
00.1953125 Female Red BronzeColor Brown Semi-
00.1953125 Female Red BronzeColor Semi-
00.390625 Male Red BronzeColor Semi-
00.09765625 Female Red BronzeColor Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Male Red BronzeColor Semi-Gray
00.09765625 Female Red BronzeColor Semi-Gray Brown
00.1953125 Female Red BronzeColor Semi-Gray Brown Semi-
00.09765625 Female Red BronzeGray
00.1953125 Male Red BronzeGray
00.09765625 Female Red BronzeGray Brown
00.1953125 Female Red BronzeGray Brown Semi-
00.1953125 Female Red BronzeGray Semi-
00.390625 Male Red BronzeGray Semi-
00.09765625 Female Red LilacColor
00.1953125 Male Red LilacColor
00.09765625 Female Red LilacColor Brown
00.1953125 Female Red LilacColor Brown Semi-
00.1953125 Female Red LilacColor Semi-
00.390625 Male Red LilacColor Semi-
00.09765625 Female Red LilacColor Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Male Red LilacColor Semi-Gray
00.09765625 Female Red LilacColor Semi-Gray Brown
00.1953125 Female Red LilacColor Semi-Gray Brown Semi-
00.1953125 Female Red LilacColor Semi-Gray Semi-
00.390625 Male Red LilacColor Semi-Gray Semi-
00.09765625 Female Red LilacGray
00.1953125 Male Red LilacGray
00.09765625 Female Red LilacGray Brown
00.1953125 Female Red LilacGray Brown Semi-
00.1953125 Female Red LilacGray Semi-
00.390625 Male Red LilacGray Semi-
00.1953125 Female Red Red SlateColor
00.390625 Male Red Red SlateColor
00.1953125 Female Red Red SlateColor Brown
00.390625 Female Red Red SlateColor Brown Semi-
00.390625 Female Red Red SlateColor Semi-
00.78125 Male Red Red SlateColor Semi-
00.1953125 Female Red Red SlateGray
00.390625 Male Red Red SlateGray
00.1953125 Female Red Red SlateGray Brown
00.390625 Female Red Red SlateGray Brown Semi-
00.390625 Female Red Red SlateGray Semi-
00.78125 Male Red Red SlateGray Semi-
00.1953125 Female Red Slate
00.390625 Male Red Slate
00.1953125 Female Red Slate Semi-Color
00.390625 Male Red Slate Semi-Color
00.1953125 Female Red Slate Semi-Color Semi-Gray
00.390625 Male Red Slate Semi-Color Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Female Red Slate Semi-Gray
00.390625 Male Red Slate Semi-Gray
00.390625 Female Rusty Black
00.78125 Male Rusty Black
00.1953125 Female Rusty BlackColor
00.390625 Male Rusty BlackColor
00.1953125 Female Rusty BlackColor Brown
00.390625 Female Rusty BlackColor Brown Semi-
00.390625 Female Rusty BlackColor Semi-
00.78125 Male Rusty BlackColor Semi-
00.1953125 Female Rusty BlackColor Semi-Gray
00.390625 Male Rusty BlackColor Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Female Rusty BlackColor Semi-Gray Brown
00.390625 Female Rusty BlackColor Semi-Gray Brown Semi-
00.390625 Female Rusty BlackColor Semi-Gray Semi-
00.78125 Male Rusty BlackColor Semi-Gray Semi-
00.1953125 Female Rusty BlackGray
00.390625 Male Rusty BlackGray
00.1953125 Female Rusty BlackGray Brown
00.390625 Female Rusty BlackGray Brown Semi-
00.390625 Female Rusty BlackGray Semi-
00.78125 Male Rusty BlackGray Semi-
00.390625 Female Rusty Brown
00.390625 Female Rusty Brown Slate
00.390625 Female Rusty Lavender
00.78125 Male Rusty Lavender
00.390625 Female Rusty Self Blue Semi-Slate
00.78125 Male Rusty Self Blue Semi-Slate
00.390625 Female Rusty Self Blue Semi-Slate Brown
00.78125 Female Rusty Self Blue Semi-Slate Brown Semi-
00.1953125 Female Rusty Self BlueColor
00.390625 Male Rusty Self BlueColor
00.1953125 Female Rusty Self BlueColor Brown
00.390625 Female Rusty Self BlueColor Brown Semi-
00.390625 Female Rusty Self BlueColor Semi-
00.78125 Male Rusty Self BlueColor Semi-
00.390625 Female Rusty Self BlueColor Semi- Semi-Slate
00.78125 Male Rusty Self BlueColor Semi- Semi-Slate
00.390625 Female Rusty Self BlueColor Semi- Semi-Slate Brown
00.78125 Female Rusty Self BlueColor Semi- Semi-Slate Brown Semi-
00.1953125 Female Rusty Self BlueColor Semi-Gray
00.390625 Male Rusty Self BlueColor Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Female Rusty Self BlueColor Semi-Gray Brown
00.390625 Female Rusty Self BlueColor Semi-Gray Brown Semi-
00.390625 Female Rusty Self BlueColor Semi-Gray Semi-
00.78125 Male Rusty Self BlueColor Semi-Gray Semi-
00.390625 Female Rusty Self BlueColor Semi-Gray Semi- Semi-Slate
00.78125 Male Rusty Self BlueColor Semi-Gray Semi- Semi-Slate
00.390625 Female Rusty Self BlueColor Semi-Gray Semi- Semi-Slate Brown
00.78125 Female Rusty Self BlueColor Semi-Gray Semi- Semi-Slate Brown Semi-
00.1953125 Female Rusty Self BlueGray
00.390625 Male Rusty Self BlueGray
00.1953125 Female Rusty Self BlueGray Brown
00.390625 Female Rusty Self BlueGray Brown Semi-
00.390625 Female Rusty Self BlueGray Semi-
00.78125 Male Rusty Self BlueGray Semi-
00.390625 Female Rusty Self BlueGray Semi- Semi-Slate
00.78125 Male Rusty Self BlueGray Semi- Semi-Slate
00.390625 Female Rusty Self BlueGray Semi- Semi-Slate Brown
00.78125 Female Rusty Self BlueGray Semi- Semi-Slate Brown Semi-
00.78125 Female Rusty Slate
01.5625 Male Rusty Slate
00.78125 Female Rusty SlateColor Semi-
01.5625 Male Rusty SlateColor Semi-
00.78125 Female Rusty SlateColor Semi-Gray Semi-
01.5625 Male Rusty SlateColor Semi-Gray Semi-
00.78125 Female Rusty SlateGray Semi-
01.5625 Male Rusty SlateGray Semi-
00.09765625 Female Self Blue
00.1953125 Male Self Blue
00.09765625 Female Self Blue Semi-Color
00.1953125 Male Self Blue Semi-Color
00.09765625 Female Self Blue Semi-Color Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Male Self Blue Semi-Color Semi-Gray
00.09765625 Female Self Blue Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Male Self Blue Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Female Semi-Jersey Buff
00.390625 Male Semi-Jersey Buff
00.1953125 Female Semi-Jersey Buff Brown
00.1953125 Female Semi-Jersey Buff Slate
00.390625 Male Semi-Jersey Buff Slate
00.1953125 Female Semi-Jersey Buff Slate Brown
00.1953125 Female Semi-Light Self Blue
00.390625 Female Semi-Light Self BlueSemi- Semi-Slate
00.1953125 Female Semi-Light Self BlueSemi-Color
00.390625 Female Semi-Light Self BlueSemi-Color Semi- Semi-Slate
00.1953125 Female Semi-Light Self BlueSemi-Color Semi-Gray
00.390625 Female Semi-Light Self BlueSemi-Color Semi-Gray Semi- Semi-Slate
00.1953125 Female Semi-Light Self BlueSemi-Gray
00.390625 Female Semi-Light Self BlueSemi-Gray Semi- Semi-Slate
00.1953125 Female Slate
00.390625 Male Slate
00.390625 Female Slate Edged Bourbon Red
00.78125 Male Slate Edged Bourbon Red
00.390625 Female Slate Edged Bourbon Red Brown
00.1953125 Female Slate Edged Jersey Buff
00.390625 Male Slate Edged Jersey Buff
00.1953125 Female Slate Edged Jersey Buff Brown
00.390625 Female Slate Edged Jersey Buff Brown Semi-
00.390625 Female Slate Edged Jersey Buff Semi-
00.78125 Male Slate Edged Jersey Buff Semi-
00.1953125 Female Slate Edged Jersey Buff Semi-Color
00.390625 Male Slate Edged Jersey Buff Semi-Color
00.1953125 Female Slate Edged Jersey Buff Semi-Color Brown
00.390625 Female Slate Edged Jersey Buff Semi-Color Brown Semi-
00.390625 Female Slate Edged Jersey Buff Semi-Color Semi-
00.78125 Male Slate Edged Jersey Buff Semi-Color Semi-
00.1953125 Female Slate Edged Jersey Buff Semi-Color Semi-Gray
00.390625 Male Slate Edged Jersey Buff Semi-Color Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Female Slate Edged Jersey Buff Semi-Color Semi-Gray Brown
00.390625 Female Slate Edged Jersey Buff Semi-Color Semi-Gray Brown Semi-
00.390625 Female Slate Edged Jersey Buff Semi-Color Semi-Gray Semi-
00.78125 Male Slate Edged Jersey Buff Semi-Color Semi-Gray Semi-
00.1953125 Female Slate Edged Jersey Buff Semi-Gray
00.390625 Male Slate Edged Jersey Buff Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Female Slate Edged Jersey Buff Semi-Gray Brown
00.390625 Female Slate Edged Jersey Buff Semi-Gray Brown Semi-
00.390625 Female Slate Edged Jersey Buff Semi-Gray Semi-
00.78125 Male Slate Edged Jersey Buff Semi-Gray Semi-
00.78125 Female Slate Edged Red Auburn
00.1953125 Female Slate Semi-Color
00.390625 Male Slate Semi-Color
00.1953125 Female Slate Semi-Color Semi-Gray
00.390625 Male Slate Semi-Color Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Female Slate Semi-Gray
00.390625 Male Slate Semi-Gray
00.1953125 Female Tri Color Mottled BlackSemi-
00.390625 Male Tri Color Mottled BlackSemi-
00.1953125 Female Tri-color Mottled Black
00.390625 Male Tri-color Mottled Black
00.390625 Female Tri-color Mottled Slate
00.78125 Male Tri-color Mottled Slate

 

[memphis]

Gotta love that calculator!

 

[memphis]

Nathan, I have turkeys & chickens too. No problems.

How do you determine if a self blue is carrying Recessive or Dominant N? A whole new dimension in Turkey calculating!

I must say, those mottled Oldhen posted are beautiful.

 

[R2elk]

Nathan, I have turkeys & chickens too. No problems.

How do you determine if a self blue is carrying Recessive or Dominant N? A whole new dimension in Turkey calculating!

I must say, those mottled Oldhen posted are beautiful.

The dominant N is the lack of the Narragansett gene. The recessive n is the presence of the Narragansett gene. It like the e (brown gene) is a sex linked gene and hens only get one of those genes.

By definition a Self Blue is homozygous for the dominant gene in all of the color genes but the tom can still be a Self Blue and be heterozygous for Narragansett (n), Recessive Slate (sl) and Spotted (sp) and still be called a Self Blue.

A Self Blue hen can be heterozygous for Recessive Slate (sl) and Spotted (sp) and still be called a Self Blue.

When dealing with hidden recessive genes the only way to find out if they exist in your turkey is by DNA testing or extensive selective breeding. The exception is when the dominant gene is only a partially dominant gene and then you can expect to see physical attributes related to that gene and its recessive counterpart.

Of course if you live in North America, you can forget about the Recessive Slate (sl) gene showing up. As of yet there are no known cases of Recessive Slate here.

 

[duluthralphie]

The dominant N is the lack of the Narragansett gene. The recessive n is the presence of the Narragansett gene. It like the e (brown gene) is a sex linked gene and hens only get one of those genes.

By definition a Self Blue is homozygous for the dominant gene in all of the color genes but the tom can still be a Self Blue and be heterozygous for Narragansett (n), Recessive Slate (sl) and Spotted (sp) and still be called a Self Blue.

A Self Blue hen can be heterozygous for Recessive Slate (sl) and Spotted (sp) and still be called a Self Blue.

When dealing with hidden recessive genes the only way to find out if they exist in your turkey is by DNA testing or extensive selective breeding. The exception is when the dominant gene is only a partially dominant gene and then you can expect to see physical attributes related to that gene and its recessive counterpart.

Of course if you live in North America, you can forget about the Recessive Slate (sl) gene showing up. As of yet there are no known cases of Recessive Slate here.

That is no longer the case. Kevin Porter imported some eggs from Australia with the sl gene. He has pictures of the hatch on the genetics FB page. They look like self blues. He is going to be breeding them for several years before they are sold to others. He is experimenting with the gene and trying to find differences in the slsl and the DD self blues.

He says right now they appear to look more like dilute self blues, that self blues but the poults are only a few weeks old. He says he is doing other things with them, but is very hush hush about what.

He also imported a spotted or painted turkey. He is trying to revive a Nebraskan or make one close to it. As I recall the last Nebraskan was in the 1930's. (from memory so could be way off)..

Memphis as R2elk says the only way to tell what a turkey has without DNA testing is to see if it gives the predicted offspring with a known DNA mate...


Dang, I feel like I am turning into a turkey DNA geek.

 

[OneMountainAcres]

Õ my goodness Ralph! I think you hit the mother load there!

My biggest problem with turkeys is that I have chickens, and from what I've read, it's not smart to keep them together because of blackhead.

I have both and they few range together. We have that lousy clay soil but no problems with blackhead.