A Coturnix Quail Standard

[joe125]

Just my 2 cents.

Coturnix come in a variety of sizes. In general, regular and jumbo sizes. They come in a variety of colors. They also come in 2 different patterns. Color sex able, and non color sex able.
We should probably not muddy the waters with dual meaning terms like "pharaoh" which has a double meaning (Size/color), and "Texas A&M" which has a similar double meaning, but also doesn't exist anywhere in the univirse.
Browns, dark browns(Rosetta or what ever you call them), and whites are the only colors that can be line breed. At least as far as I know.

 

[adubsroit]

Stumbled upon Coturnix Quail by Katie Thear and it shed some light on this topic.

Just so were on the same page, is the information correct? Would this then make Jumbos and A&M's types of this breed as they are after-all meant as meat birds, rather than egg layers? From what I have read is that referring to something as Jumbo Brown can be confusing to some as there is actually a variety/type known simply as a Brown in Australia (which may also even be a sub-species, this according to Thear).

Taking into consideration information from the text by Katie Thear, Michael Roberts (of Quail Past & Present) and the information on this thread the closest to a standard of colors are:

- Pharaoh (Stellar Gamebirds website says that "the Pharaoh term represents size rather than color" more than one other source note Pharaoh as a color though).
-On this basis, could Pharaoh be better categorized as a Brown with Range pattern (calling it Normal type seems boring)?
- English [White]
- Manchurian [Gold]
- Rosetta [British]
- Tibetan [Dark British]
- Fawn
- Red Golden
- Tuxedo [a type of Pied Pattern alongside colors such as Rosetta, Tibetan, Fawn, Manchurian, Pharaoh(?)]
- Golden [according to text this is a light Pharaoh]
- Jumbo [rather a type than color, a dual purpose (?) bird]
- Texas A&M [also a type, meant for meat(?)]

Though mostly noted by information from the U.K., other colors include:
- Tricoloured Tuxedo [it looks interesting]
- Cream
- Grey [could this be what we can Silver in the U.S.?]
- Blue
- Grey/Blue
- Ginger
- Red

Gathered from everything it should also then be assumed that all birds are Range (aka Wild type(?)) patterned. Maybe not an exception and rather mutation (?) is tuxedo. The tuxedo (pied pattern) covers the bird with white but bits of of color break through and the range/wild pattern is obvious here (correct?). The Texas A&M birds and English birds are seemingly the only solid birds, but even they can have spots of color break through, but not to the extent as Tuxedos experience (correct?).

I hope what I am doing makes sense. I am trying to integrate as much as I can. As I said earlier, but maybe should have done so with more conviction: I am by no means trying to assert myself as an expert on the coturnix. Finding a consensus as a means to a make-shift standard doesn't seem to be harmful, and I think it helps that this community discuss these things so that some day things might actually go on the books. I guess the next step would be verifying the information above and then getting pictures of them.

 

[adubsroit]

Quote:
I am new to this and I just found out about the whole Pharaoh thing. Sorta interesting how jargon takes the place of more technical terms, eh? Kinda seems like we call kettles "pots" just because their black. Maybe they should just get called Norm[al] Ranges, lol.

 

[Omniskies]

I love the idea of having an actual standard. I'm getting tired of seeing people with 9oz birds that they are calling Jumbos, with XLD1s that they swear are 20oz, with 60 names for Italian/Manchurian/Light quail, with every white quail being an A&M White, English White, or "rare white Coturnix!".

We need a standard. But we need a _real_ standard. We need obsessive breeders who keep obsessive records to tell us how the genetics work throughout the generations. We need a set name for the "wild type" quail, and a standard name for the Dark Range, and whatever else. Nicknames and "other names" are fine until everyone is working with the same standard. Just like we try to forgive people for still calling Barred Rocks "Dominikers"

It's too confusing trying to get quail eggs only to try to figure out what an A&M Tibetan is, or an English Pied. Then once we can figure out what we have maybe we can sit down and make some new colors and varieties to really liven up the quail world.

I would love to work closely with other breeders in trying to sort out the genetics from one strain to the next, and I would love for us to all _slowly_ come up with terms we can all agree on for what we have. Slowly, of course, so that nothing is rushed and everything is done right the first time around.

Just as an aside, we all know that regardless of the color, a Coturnix is a Coturnix. I would like to propose calling the different colors "Varieties," a term stolen straight from how turkeys are handled. There are no turkey breeds, only turkey colors. And while many of us would _like_ to see turkey breeds (a 19lb Royal Palm is not the same as a 33lb Bourbon Red...), they are still all Varieties.

We can break down Jumbo and Standard(/Production?), or we can leave everything as a Variety. At which point we have the Jumbo Browns, Standard Browns, Jumbo Lights, etc all as distinct Varieties within Coturnix quail. Or we just give each color/size a different name. Italians may be a "Standard Gold" that lays well but isn't very large, while a Manchurian is a heavier "Jumbo" bird that lays fewer eggs but is double the size of the other.

As for the below colors, here's my two cents:

- English [White] I have always heard of the English White as the "dark meat" White, while A&M Whites are white meat.
- Manchurian [Gold] I have seen these quail called Italians, Golds, or Manchurians. Italians or Manchurians seems to be the most common.
- Rosetta [British] I've always seen those as Tibetans. Tibetans come in dark and dark-dark phase.
- Tibetan [Dark British] These are the double-dark Tibetans, I assume. Someone else will have to elaborate more on the genetics.
- Fawn Seem to be a darker phase of the Golds.
- Red Golden No idea. I can't find the color. A darker Gold or lighter Tibetan?
- Tuxedo Tuxedo has been the common name for a pied quail. I'd rather see Tuxedo be a set _pattern_. Then there is more room for other pied Varieties to show up, like Bibbed, Hooded, etc.
- Golden Manchurian/Italian?
- Jumbo
- Texas A&M I've always thought these were a genuine white meat bird. Someone said they don't exist?

I like the bare bones standard found here: http://www.poultry.allotment.org.uk/Poultry/Keeping_Quail/quail-coturnix-color.php that someone else posted. I've used it in the past. Eventually I'd like to buy the book and see what she says about the genetics of each color. The lethal gene for Golds is a fantastic example of the sort of information that needs to be used to determine various Varieties and how to breed each.

Maybe we could use that as a base and elaborate from there? It'd be better to build off of a standard rather than reinvent the wheel from the ground up.

Belolw is the distinction and information I have been using on my website. Correct/clarify/comment as needed:

A&M Texans/A&M Whites

These pure white quail were developed at A&M Texas University to be an all-white meat bird for restaurants. They have become extremely popular and are nearly as common as the regular brown Coturnix. To avoid a lethal gene associated with albanism, A&M Whites should have a spot or two of color on the head. At times there are spots on the back and wings, which are undesireable (the color can leave spots on the skin that some people don't like). There have been a few reports of "pied" quail, or quail that are white with brown patches, these are more than likely A&M Whites with excessive spotting or an A&M White crossed with another variety of Coturnix.

Gender cannot be determined by color with these quail and vent sexing is the best way to know what you have. Females are generally a little larger than males, but going by size runs the risk of keeping a runt female as a male.

A&M White chicks are pure yellow with one or two dark spots on them. These dark spots will stay with them into adulthood.

Brown/Standard/Wild

The most common color of Coturnix is called brown, standard or wild depending on with whom you are speaking. All other colors of Coturnix are a mutation of the brown by lightening or darkening the existing pattern. Of all the colors, the brown is the easiest to sex by sight.

Brown chicks are dark in color with two golden stripes running down their back and three golden stripes on the face like some sort of bizzare black and gold skunk. The color is extremely similar to Ringneck Pheasant chicks.

Gold/Manchurian Gold

Gold is a lighter mutation of the brown coloring, causing the quail to be a milky fawn color where the brown would have been. The black spots remain, and the color can still be sexed by the breast feathers (all orange are males, creamy with black speckles are females).

The chicks are a pale fawn color with thin dark stripes. They will not have any blotches on them like the A&M Whites and should be more tan or fawn than yellow.

Tibetan

Tibetans are a dark mutation of brown and are almost black in color. There are two types of Tibetans: single diluted and double diluted. Single diluted are a dark rust color and only have a single "dose" of darker coloring to the feathers. Double diluted most commonly occurs when two Tibetans are crossed together, resulting in a much darker quail.

A Tibetan's gender cannot be determined by its color, so vent sexing is recommended when selecting your breeders.

Chicks are a rust or near-black color depending on whether they are single or double diluted. There should not be any yellow patches around the throat or chest area.

Tuxedo

These quail are almost identical to the Tibetans, with their only difference being a white patch around the face, throat and chest area. A nicely marked Tuxedo will have an even line of white down the throat that connects with a symmetrical white bib on the chest. As with the Tibetans, Tuxedos can be single or double diluted, affecting how dark the quail ends up being.

Tuxedo chicks are dark in color with yellow markings around the face, throat and chest. These markings will stay with the quail when it is mature, allowing you to select the best markings in the brooder to choose breeders from at a later time.​

 

[mhwc56]

Thank you for starting a fire under this topic!

It seems alot of people would like to have this happen but there also seems to be quite a bit of difference of opinions too so we ,as new people to the Coturnix, are soooooo confused .It's difficult to know what's what with colors,patterns, size ranges for standards or jumbos (and i've also heard of "giants" from someone...)
There are some EXTREMELY knowledgable folks out there and it would be AWESOME if they would join forces and create a Coturnix "standard " that people will be able to go to for all this important information .......pleeeeeeeeeeeeease?

 

[JJMR794]

The A&m Are Not White Meat. Never Have Been. This Is A Myth About The Speces That Has Clouded It Since The Beginning. The Difference Between English Whites And A&m Are The Same As The Smaller Brown "pharoah" And The Jumbo Brown, Nothing More

 

[JJMR794]

Coturnix Feathers Come In A Wide Array Of Colors And Color Combinations, But Only 3 Patterns--- Wild Such As Brown And Man Golden --- This Is The Feather Pattern--- The Color Is The Strain's Differential. Range Refers To The Tibetan Feather Pattern, No Matter The Color. Then White Which Is An Absent Pattern--- Whites Are Double Peid Genetics--- They Are Not White ( True White Is Albino- Or A Total Lack Of Pigment All Over The Birds Body)genetics--- They Have Color Patches Upon Them, They Have Pigment In Their Eyes, Skin And Some Feathers--- They Are A Double Pied Gene Version Of Another Strain, Same Is True Of Tuxedos But They Are Single Pied Gene---- There Are Pieds In Coturnix! Just It Happens In A Very Predictable Pattern Unlike Other Bird Speces

If Need Be To Better Understand This Go Out To Your Pen And Pick Up A Tibetan In 1 Hand And A Brown Or Gold In The Other--- Look Closely At Their Backs And Examine The Feather Patterns--- For Lack Of A Better Way Of Stating It Its Like Holding A Blrw Versus A Buff Wyandot--- Same Breed Different Colors And Patterns On The Feathers

As Far As Size... Standard, Also Known As Pharoah Quial And Jumbo= Basically Big And Little--- With A Few Medium Misfits Just Foir Extra Confusion, But Dont Worry The Breeder Will Likely Claim Them As Jumbo

Anyone Who Markets "rare White Coturnix"-- Whites Are Not Rare, Or 20 Oz (rare Is Anything 14 Oz Or Larger, 16 Oz Would Be A Guiness Book Rarity)coturnix Of Any Color Should Be Suspect Immediately!!! Either They Are Uneducated In Their Persuits And Have No Idea Whatsoever Of What They Are Doing, Or A Dishonest Person Whom Should Be Given Wide Berth.

A&ms Are Not Pure White --- 90% Have The Color Spots On Them, Maybe 10% Dont--- Same Is True Of English White. There Are No White Meat Coturnix.

 

[Stellar]

Katie Ther has a good book, just ignore the button quail information

Everything on my website is the most accurate info on the coturnix colors. I feel like a broken record with the genetics...

 

[Omniskies]

The feathers all having the same pattern but being different shades is going to be obvious to anyone who has at least _seen_ a picture of the quail. Still, different strains and different names becomes confusing. I don't know how many times I have heard that Italians are a light/golden/whatever strain that were raised specifically to be profilic egg layers. So to me, an Italian could easily be a standard sized, light colored quail for egg production. While a Manchurian could be a large, light colored quail bred for meat.

JJMR, do you know of any sites that explains how the myth came about? I believe you, I'm just curious.

Quail Lady, I'm checking out your site now. I have a feeling it will end up changing a lot of what I believe about quail

Edit:

Quail Lady, I read over your colors and it all makes sense except for one thing:

The English Coturnix is slightly larger than the normal type wild coturnix. The Texas A and M Coturnix was developed from this bird. Petite, white birds either all white or with black spotting. They have a very calm disposition. White meat. Becoming rare since the Texas A and M was introduced. Males and females are hard to be differentiated other than vent sexing.

English Whites are an all-white meat bird?

Also, I have seen pied quail that do not have the Tuxedo markings. Mostly birds that have a giant patch on their back. Too much to be considered the few spots that you typically see on A&M Whites. What are these considered?

Lastly, I heard that you don't want a quail that is completely white since there is something about the gene that either affects the hatch rate or the health of the birds. When you breed you always want at least a spot of color on the bird. Have you heard anything about this?​

 

[Stellar]

CRUD!! Texas A and Ms are not white meat...LOL I need to change that. The beginnings of the Tuxedo have weird patches on them. Like a white patch on the face (My red tux pair offspring is hilarious looking...the others are gorgeous, this one is funny looking. I need to post a picture of him. His name is "Red Panda" just his name, still a Red Tux, a Red Tux gone wild in my opinion