A Heritage of Perfection: Standard-bred Large Fowl

[fowlman01]

Walt, in your travels around the country have you seen any real high quality Marans being exhibited in any color?
 Best,
 Karen

Not what I would consider high quality but I have seen a few Black Copper females that were pretty good. No good males of any color yet IMO the Black coppers were better a couple years ago. To many people have gone on to other colors before making the BC'S better and frankly there are very few recognized breeders working with any kind of Marans.

Walt

 

[fowlman01]

  Wow! That could have been a traumatic experience.

it was. I haven't seen anything like that since. When you have that many birds some will die ever day, but to go out the next day after collecting 2 or three birds and find them all dead was indescribable. I hope to never see anything like that again.

Walt

 

[3riverschick]

Not what I would consider high quality but I have seen a few Black Copper females that were pretty good. No good males of any color yet IMO the Black coppers were better a couple years ago. To many people have gone on to other colors before making the BC'S better and frankly there are very few recognized breeders working with any kind of Marans.

Walt

Hi Walt,
Sigh, I was hoping for better news.

Well it is what it is.

They are a challenge indeed.
The Marans, esp. , seems to be plagued by color "enthusiasms".

I admit to being part
of that when I was working with Golden Salmon.Personally, I don't think the breed can
support more than Black Copper, Wheaten, and Cuckoo.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Hi Walt,
Sigh, I was hoping for better news.

Well it is what it is.

They are a challenge indeed.
The Marans, esp. , seems to be plagued by color "enthusiasms".

I admit to being part
of that when I was working with Golden Salmon.Personally, I don't think the breed can
support more than Black Copper, Wheaten, and Cuckoo.

I would take it a step further and say that I dont' think they can support more than Black Copper and Wheaten. Regardless of whether or not Cuckoo is historically important--just as rose comb black Orpingtons were historically important--Cuckoo is not a color that ever finds enduring support save in Dominiques--and they almost disappeared. Barred anything outside of Rocks and Dominiques just doesn't seem to click. Moreover, as Walt pointed out, I can't think of a single established breeder in the APA community that is working with Marans in general. I doubt anyone would ever pick up the Cuckoo because of the aforementioned issue.

The cool thing--and probably the only cool thing about the Marans, which aren't very chique chickens once one gets over the egg color--is that the Black Copper and the Wheaten represent color patterns that are not otherwise present in "dual-purpose" birds, such that is folks were to actually prioritize them it could be their edge. Unfortunately, I don't see this happening, and I expect that they will soon be a popular among breeders as Welsummers and Barnevelders.

 

[gjensen]

This is just my opinion, and it does not mean squat.

I like the cuckoo, and what I became familiar with earlier on were better utility birds than what I am seeing now. The impression that they made on me is what influences how I see the breed. I knew of a flock of big birds with pretty good type. They were good layers of very large eggs not as dark as the darkest now, but dark eggs. They had the English type clean legs. I do not know if there is any more decent ones out there or not. I agree with Yellow House. Their might remain a flock or two around, but I do not see them as ever being a big player. I hope some are kept up with. I am a sucker for birds that have potential to be useful. The ones I knew of were.

I can see the Black Copper sticking around. They might not be being bred by established breeders, but they are being bred by some up and coming breeders that have showed a commitment to the hobby. Some of these are the next generation of established breeders. There are a few very bright women on here that have a knack for this, and enjoy this breed.

I think the wheaten variety would stand a better chance, if they were not a "red wheaten". They are miles away from the wheaten color that you find on the Game bantams. I see them as one step ahead of the Cuckoo in the future.

I think the Welsummer is underrated. Decent ones are attractive birds, and in my opinion, a more practical option. The well bred Welsummer that the Dutch have are a sight for sore eyes. I do not know if they will ever reach their potential here, but I do believe that they have potential. I feel the same way about the Barnevelder. I think they could have a lot of potential. They could be gorgeous birds, and good for someone that appreciates a challenge.

One thing that I notice in this part of the hobby is a tendency to go with what can win. That is a general statement with plenty of exceptions, but that is an impression that I have.

 

[3riverschick]

Re: the Cuckoo Marans. My favs are the old strains. The Ripley, Fugate and the Kelly Cratty. The first 2 were directly imported . The last was created by a 10 yr. formal breeding plan. Kelly lived about 3 hrs. from me. He had both Blacks and Cuckoo show up in his flocks. I got my my Black and Cuckoos from him in the 9th yr. of his plan. They were wonderful vigorous birds. Laid well and very dark eggs. All three strains were known as Cuckoo with very dark eggs, Other strains used them to darken their eggs in their new and melded strains. All three of these old strains were clean legged and still exist in flocks around the country in pure form. I checked this year. I think the attraction here for these strains of the Cuckoo is the dark eggs. Frankly, and I know it doesn't matter now, I think the Clubs made a mistake insisting on feather legs and shanks. I think in retrospect they should have been optional.
Best Regards,
Karen
Former Director of Archives, MOAC

 

[fowlman01]

The quality of Barnevelders and Welsummer is better than Marans
Another judge and I gave Grand Champion of the Sow last October to a Barnevelder cockerel last October. This was a high quality show with some outstanding waterfowl large fowl and bantams. I saw this bird from 3 aisles away. It was one of those birds. A real breeder from Holland is raising them. There are also some good Barnevelders here in California. There are some up coming breeders of Marans but they need a few more years and some more breeders. I'm not sure a Wheaten Marans will do anything important in a strong show anytime soon. The color alone will take a while to get right and the female color will always be all over the place.

Walt

 

[troyer]

The quality of Barnevelders and Welsummer is better than Marans
Another judge and I gave Grand Champion of the Sow last October to a Barnevelder cockerel last October. This was a high quality show with some outstanding waterfowl large fowl and bantams. I saw this bird from 3 aisles away. It was one of those birds. A real breeder from Holland is raising them. There are also some good Barnevelders here in California. There are some up coming breeders of Marans but they need a few more years and some more breeders. I'm not sure a Wheaten Marans will do anything important in a strong show anytime soon. The color alone will take a while to get right and the female color will always be all over the place.

Walt

I just googled wheaten Marans images and I think I see what you mean.

 

[fowlman01]

Re: the Cuckoo Marans. My favs are the old strains. The Ripley, Fugate and the Kelly Cratty. The first 2 were directly imported . The last was created by a 10 yr. formal breeding plan. Kelly lived about 3 hrs. from me.   He had both Blacks and Cuckoo show up in his flocks. I got my  my Black and Cuckoos from him in the 9th yr. of his plan. They were wonderful vigorous birds. Laid well and very dark eggs. All three strains were known as Cuckoo with very dark eggs, Other strains used them to darken their eggs in their new and melded strains. All three of these old strains were clean legged and still exist in flocks around the country in pure form. I checked this year. I think the attraction here for these strains of  the Cuckoo is the dark eggs.  Frankly, and I know it doesn't matter now, I think the Clubs made a mistake insisting on feather legs and shanks. I think in retrospect they should have been optional.
 Best Regards,
 Karen
 Former Director of Archives, MOAC

The APA required one or the other when it came to the feathers on the legs. Since the country of origin has feathered legs that is the way they went. Great Britain and Australia are the only ones that have clean legged Marans.

Walt

 

[3riverschick]

The APA required one or the other when it came to the feathers on the legs. Since the country of origin has feathered legs that is the way they went. Great Britain and Australia are the only ones that have clean legged Marans.

Walt

Hi Walt,
I didn't know that.
Thanks,
Karen