A Heritage of Perfection: Standard-bred Large Fowl

[bnjrob]

How long did it take before those birds showed their wry tail? Was it just the tail or did you find the entire spine to be twisted?

 

[Fowlisfair]

As far as the tenacity to stay with a breed goes, that is a non issue with me. I have raised a lot of livestock over the years, as well as coonhounds. I am quite familiar with the feeling of lack of progress!
Which is one of the reasons I am really looking for a breed that is not lost, bit simply needs a bit more work than most. Some of the old breeds are gone, but I feel like these three are within range of a comeback. I like each of these breeds, to me it simply boils down to which seems to need a dedicated breeder in the worst way. I enjoy a good challenge!

 

[bnjrob]

As far as the tenacity to stay with a breed goes, that is a non issue with me. I have raised a lot of livestock over the years, as well as coonhounds. I am quite familiar with the feeling of lack of progress!
Which is one of the reasons I am really looking for a breed that is not lost, bit simply needs a bit more work than most. Some of the old breeds are gone, but I feel like these three are within range of a comeback. I like each of these breeds, to me it simply boils down to which seems to need a dedicated breeder in the worst way. I enjoy a good challenge!

I'm not sure there is a way to figure out which breed really needs someone the most. Probably just have to choose arbitrarily.

You can probably find more people keeping Javas than you can Dorkings, but it doesn't mean that they are doing any kind of serious breeding. The Livestock Conservancy did a Java Recovery Project that got Javas out in front of people, but it seems that the goal leaned more toward increasing numbers without as much emphasis on also improving/maintaining SOP traits. The Java fervor seems to have lessened quite a bit in the last couple of years, now that the Conservancy is not pushing Javas as much in various poultry magazine articles like they used to do. And the Java fervor resulted in Garfield Farms pushing non-standard colored birds that surfaced at their farm, to give their farm a little P.R. and make the public think they were getting some incredibly miraculous specimen of Java. People couldn't get their hands on *auburn* Javas fast enough. Most of what I've seen are folks selling Javas to make money off of *heritage* birds, but when you tell people they need to get an SOP so they know what they are supposed to be breeding towards, their eyes glaze over or they say they can't afford to buy an SOP. And talking about production and SOP breeding with them....lost cause. People like the idea of helping an old breed, but when they find out that it is a lot of work and they aren't going to get rich by selling the offspring, their interest wanes. And don't even think of talking about butchering a cull bird to most Java keepers - they will freak out because they don't eat their pets. A number of people that were somewhat serious about Javas have gone off into other things just in the last couple of years.

Javas are not a lost cause. They need work in all areas, but they are not unredeemable to someone that enjoys a challenge like you do. Not sure about Dorkings or Doms. Don't hear much about Javas and less about Dorkings. Doms don't seem to be totally off the radar, but it seems it's like with Javas - more growers than serious breeders. Most folks that I hear talking about Doms are all about *Domineckers* and wouldn't know the difference between a Dom or a Barred Rock.

 

[MagicChicken]

Quote:
They were butchered at three months. Until I butchered them I wasn't sure if it was wry tail or lazy tail. For a while before I butchered them I had noticed the tails being held off to the side, but every once in a while they would be straight. I had way too many cockerels and decided the tail thing was annoying enough I would cull those birds, whether it was skeletal or muscular. After butchering it was clear the tail was angled off to the side a bit. It did not noticeably involve the entire spine.

One of those birds was long-legged and slightly knock-kneed, and gave an impression of unsteadiness when he walked even though it didn't slow him down any. Wasn't sure if he was developing other problems or not. If I'd had room I'd have kept him because I was curious about how he would develop. Learning opportunity lost for me, but the remaining birds have more room.

I have a couple more cockerels who may be developing tail issues as well. Keeping an eye on them closely.

 

[bnjrob]

They were butchered at three months. Until I butchered them I wasn't sure if it was wry tail or lazy tail. For a while before I butchered them I had noticed the tails being held off to the side, but every once in a while they would be straight. I had way too many cockerels and decided the tail thing was annoying enough I would cull those birds, whether it was skeletal or muscular. After butchering it was clear the tail was angled off to the side a bit. It did not noticeably involve the entire spine.

One of those birds was long-legged and slightly knock-kneed, and gave an impression of unsteadiness when he walked even though it didn't slow him down any. Wasn't sure if he was developing other problems or not. If I'd had room I'd have kept him because I was curious about how he would develop. Learning opportunity lost for me, but the remaining birds have more room.

I have a couple more cockerels who may be developing tail issues as well. Keeping an eye on them closely.

That's early, which is like how it showed up in our McGraw hatch last year. But then two of the cockerels had such twisted spines that they eventually grew visibly deformed. Didn't worry much about it since the old SOPs mention crooked spines being a DQ in Javas, so it had obviously been popping up for a long time.

 

[DesertChic]

As far as the tenacity to stay with a breed goes, that is a non issue with me. I have raised a lot of livestock over the years, as well as coonhounds. I am quite familiar with the feeling of lack of progress!
Which is one of the reasons I am really looking for a breed that is not lost, bit simply needs a bit more work than most. Some of the old breeds are gone, but I feel like these three are within range of a comeback. I like each of these breeds, to me it simply boils down to which seems to need a dedicated breeder in the worst way. I enjoy a good challenge!

I'm not sure there is a way to figure out which breed really needs someone the most. Probably just have to choose arbitrarily.

You can probably find more people keeping Javas than you can Dorkings, but it doesn't mean that they are doing any kind of serious breeding. The Livestock Conservancy did a Java Recovery Project that got Javas out in front of people, but it seems that the goal leaned more toward increasing numbers without as much emphasis on also improving/maintaining SOP traits. The Java fervor seems to have lessened quite a bit in the last couple of years, now that the Conservancy is not pushing Javas as much in various poultry magazine articles like they used to do. And the Java fervor resulted in Garfield Farms pushing non-standard colored birds that surfaced at their farm, to give their farm a little P.R. and make the public think they were getting some incredibly miraculous specimen of Java. People couldn't get their hands on *auburn* Javas fast enough. Most of what I've seen are folks selling Javas to make money off of *heritage* birds, but when you tell people they need to get an SOP so they know what they are supposed to be breeding towards, their eyes glaze over or they say they can't afford to buy an SOP. And talking about production and SOP breeding with them....lost cause. People like the idea of helping an old breed, but when they find out that it is a lot of work and they aren't going to get rich by selling the offspring, their interest wanes. And don't even think of talking about butchering a cull bird to most Java keepers - they will freak out because they don't eat their pets. A number of people that were somewhat serious about Javas have gone off into other things just in the last couple of years.

Javas are not a lost cause. They need work in all areas, but they are not unredeemable to someone that enjoys a challenge like you do. Not sure about Dorkings or Doms. Don't hear much about Javas and less about Dorkings. Doms don't seem to be totally off the radar, but it seems it's like with Javas - more growers than serious breeders. Most folks that I hear talking about Doms are all about *Domineckers* and wouldn't know the difference between a Dom or a Barred Rock.

I can only speak to the difficult I've experienced in acquiring quality SG Dorkings. One breeder did such a deplorable job packaging the eggs that many of them that hadn't broken were actually stuck directly to the packaging tape, which then peeled the shell off the membrane during removal. Only one egg out of that batch hatched, and it's NOT a Dorking. (It has a flower comb and a top hat!)

The other breeder I bought hatching eggs from did a much better job and I had a better than 90% hatch rate, but the birds aren't pure SGD. They're a mix of SGD, colored and red Dorking....beautiful birds, but nowhere near SOP.

And, to top it all off, one of the best breeders of White Dorkings in the country (Yellow House Farms) has decided to stop breeding them in favor of only Anconas.

I hope this doesn't come across as discouraging. It has been very frustrating, but the breed still needs dedicated breeders. I'd hoped to become one, at least on a small scale, but so far it just hasn't worked out.

 

[bnjrob]

I can only speak to the difficult I've experienced in acquiring quality SG Dorkings. One breeder did such a deplorable job packaging the eggs that many of them that hadn't broken were actually stuck directly to the packaging tape, which then peeled the shell off the membrane during removal. Only one egg out of that batch hatched, and it's NOT a Dorking. (It has a flower comb and a top hat!)

The other breeder I bought hatching eggs from did a much better job and I had a better than 90% hatch rate, but the birds aren't pure SGD. They're a mix of SGD, colored and red Dorking....beautiful birds, but nowhere near SOP.

And, to top it all off, one of the best breeders of White Dorkings in the country (Yellow House Farms) has decided to stop breeding them in favor of only Anconas.

I hope this doesn't come across as discouraging. It has been very frustrating, but the breed still needs dedicated breeders. I'd hoped to become one, at least on a small scale, but so far it just hasn't worked out.

I thought Joseph was using his Dorkings for meat birds to sell, is he getting out of that or am I thinking of someone else?

What is really worrisome here lately with the old breeds is now with this avian flu crap going on, it could get really difficult to get the breeds into the hands of people that are interested in them if there are not any local to the person that wants to raise them. Most of the people that contact me wanting Javas are from out of state. I've had one person tell me that they will wait for me to get NPIP because he really wants Javas, but NPIP doesn't do any good anyway if the states shut down importing birds because of the flu.

 

[Fowlisfair]

I've been following these forums for some time, and I am saddened to hear that Joseph is giving up on the Dorking. That said, his Anconas are lovely!

 

[MagicChicken]

Quote:
Remind me again what the "SG" means in "SG Dorkings"? It has totally escaped me and my SOP is not in reach. Maybe I just need sleep. Or coffee...

Very sorry to hear Yellow House Farms has stopped working with the Dorkings. But I agree with what others have said - his Anconas are gorgeous. And life goes on. You do what you have to do.

 

[DesertChic]

Remind me again what the "SG" means in "SG Dorkings"? It has totally escaped me and my SOP is not in reach. Maybe I just need sleep. Or coffee...

Very sorry to hear Yellow House Farms has stopped working with the Dorkings. But I agree with what others have said - his Anconas are gorgeous. And life goes on. You do what you have to do.

Sorry...the SG stands for "Silver Grey".