A Heritage of Perfection: Standard-bred Large Fowl

[Fred's Hens]

Joseph will his own thoughts, no doubt.

My thoughts about "emotional baggage" is this.

1. The breed kept is often for nostaglic reasons. That's OK, but turning nostalgia into birds that reflect the objective written standard challenges emotionalism and "heart string" attachments and reality and nostalgia often run head long into each other.

2. Barn blindess takes many many forms, not the least of which is that we "like" certain individual birds. It's somewhat human nature to find reasons to be affectionate, but if this is at the price of not being able to cull adequately and ruthlessly, the progress made will be nill.

3. There is also the idyllic farm scene in our own brains of our great grand mother's day and this too impacts our ability to be as objective as we need to as breeders. This impacts everything from choice of variety, choice of breed, bantam vs LF, and so on.

4. Finally, it can be emotionally disturbing to be told your 3 years worth of work on a group of birds has produced stock for the stock pot, rather than for showing others what a standard bred variety looks like. We all can be defensive and this too can cripple our ability to move forward. It is easy to say, "Tell me the truth" and then rationalize away the good advice we've received, even though it was we who asked for that feedback in the first place. My mentors were/are some of the toughest, most honest, most brutally honest folks I know. It was very difficult at first. It may take awhile to get over taking such things personally and believe your mentor when she/he says, "now, don't take this personally". Yeah right.

 

[sideWing]

Discarding the utility of bantam chickens is a mistake many make IMO. The most productive and feed efficient layers I have raised are the Langshan bantams, and the eggs are a USDA medium, bordering on large. They mature fast and the cockerels would make a very nice meal for a couple people at 16 weeks. I have seen similar utility in other larger bantam breeds. It's such an overlooked thing that these days when urban backyard folks ask me for recommendations I point them in that direction, even over my Leghorns which are very productive as well.

Large fowl, especially well bred, standard bred birds are big. The whole demographic of new backyard and urban chicken keepers really isn't prepared for that, the space requirements and the extra feed requirements are rather substantial, especially when the goal for so many is just simply eggs.

Of course I'm really just playing devil's advocate here as I drastically prefer the large fowl versions of most breeds, but looking at the market, and intent of many...well, see above.

The exhibition halls are tilting soberly toward the bantams. (not "banties") ... THAT much is true. Large Fowl are facing challenges and that also is reality. Mostly, their age has passed as a viable agricultural/commercial product and their very existence are now virtually dependent completely upon homesteaders and fanciers who still breed them and exhibit them. Bantams also have a reasonably energized association, the ABA. Bantams do indeed lay more eggs per pound of feed, it seems to me as my experience with them is quite recent. Traditional standard bred LF are indeed LARGE and yes, they eat feed and yes, they take a bit of time to grow and mature.

I also agree with Matt that bantams do indeed make for easier keepers for people with limited facilities.

Do I mourn the ever shrinking numbers of LF at the shows? Yes. Yes, I do. See all of the above to understand that it seems quite likely to continue. Far too many breeds and far too few folks who know how to breed them well. Many of the LF varieties are virtually extinct already. Too bad.

Those are really great points. I had not thought about the egg production being worthwhile. I had only seen small bantam eggs and assumed they were more for pickling or other novelty uses, but this is a real eye opener. I still prize a bigger dual purpose bird myself, but I can see the draw for the bantams. Thanks!

 

[gjensen]

Discarding the utility of bantam chickens is a mistake many make IMO. The most productive and feed efficient layers I have raised are the Langshan bantams, and the eggs are a USDA medium, bordering on large. They mature fast and the cockerels would make a very nice meal for a couple people at 16 weeks. I have seen similar utility in other larger bantam breeds. It's such an overlooked thing that these days when urban backyard folks ask me for recommendations I point them in that direction, even over my Leghorns which are very productive as well.

Large fowl, especially well bred, standard bred birds are big. The whole demographic of new backyard and urban chicken keepers really isn't prepared for that, the space requirements and the extra feed requirements are rather substantial, especially when the goal for so many is just simply eggs.

Of course I'm really just playing devil's advocate here as I drastically prefer the large fowl versions of most breeds, but looking at the market, and intent of many...well, see above.

I agree and appreciate the honesty. There is some truth here that we tend to shy away from. Bantams can be a practical option, certainly. I want to qualify my statement by saying that bantams are not always a practical option. Some breeds/strains are not even remotely productive. Some barely reproduce themselves. Still others do quite well.

 

[Fred's Hens]

I agree and appreciate the honesty. There is some truth here that we tend to shy away from. Bantams can be a practical option, certainly. I want to qualify my statement by saying that bantams are not always a practical option. Some breeds/strains are not even remotely productive. Some barely reproduce themselves. Still others do quite well.

True generally. Lots of head nodding here.

 

[NanaKat]

Whole heartedly agree. My best producing Bantams are Delaware and Rosecomb; medium producers are OEGB and d'Anver; least productive are the Serama. That being said, I have a pair of Spangled OEGB and a Blue Rosecomb pair that have not laid an egg in a year. Yet my Delaware and the othe Rosecomb lay thru the winter months.

 

[Sydney Acres]

Whole heartedly agree. My best producing Bantams are Delaware and Rosecomb; medium producers are OEGB and d'Anver; least productive are the Serama. That being said, I have a pair of Spangled OEGB and a Blue Rosecomb pair that have not laid an egg in a year. Yet my Delaware and the othe Rosecomb lay thru the winter months.

NanaKat, how large of an egg do your Delaware bantams produce in their second year? The LF Delawares produce extra large to jumbos. Are your bantams reaching a large size, or still medium?

Also, how are your bantam Delawares with regard to meat production? Many people use bantams for meat, as some lines can be well fleshed for their size, and produce a nice carcass for 1-3 people. Most of my information is with raising Indian Game Bantams, but LF Delawares are a traditional table bird, so I was wondering about the production of their bantam form?

 

[Wisher1000]

I also drastically prefer large fowl. I have at various times acquired some huge, standard bred, show quality lines, of Black Orpingtons, and Rhode Island Reds. I love holding them. It is amazing to have that much mass in your arms and it only be a single bird. I love to look at them and to see the look on people's faces when they first see them (we don't have many standard bred large fowl in the south.) However, they are expensive to feed, they are tiresome to handle day to day, and they require more structured space for protection.

My Campines are large fowl, but they are on the small end (4.5 - 6lbs.) I have a much lower feed bill since they forage all day and only fill their crops full of feed before they go to roost at night. That would be difficult with either the larger breeds or the bantams. Egg production has improved greatly in the last three years and I hope to see even more improvement. They were nicknamed "The Everyday Layer" in the early 1900s and their eggs are routinely medium the first year and large after that. I even have a couple of older hens that give me extra large eggs. I cannot speak from personal experience as to the texture, flavor, or quantity of the meat, because I have yet to eat one, but according to what I've read in my research, they were preferred by chefs in Europe for their unmatched quality in those areas.

This message has been brought to you by Tin Star Campines and is for shameless (albeit sincere) promotional purposes, only.

 

[Sydney Acres]

I also drastically prefer large fowl. I have at various times acquired some huge, standard bred, show quality lines, of Black Orpingtons, and Rhode Island Reds. I love holding them. It is amazing to have that much mass in your arms and it only be a single bird. I love to look at them and to see the look on people's faces when they first see them (we don't have many standard bred large fowl in the south.) However, they are expensive to feed, they are tiresome to handle day to day, and they require more structured space for protection.

My Campines are large fowl, but they are on the small end (4.5 - 6lbs.) I have a much lower feed bill since they forage all day and only fill their crops full of feed before they go to roost at night. That would be difficult with either the larger breeds or the bantams. Egg production has improved greatly in the last three years and I hope to see even more improvement. They were nicknamed "The Everyday Layer" in the early 1900s and their eggs are routinely medium the first year and large after that. I even have a couple of older hens that give me extra large eggs. I cannot speak from personal experience as to the texture, flavor, or quantity of the meat, because I have yet to eat one, but according to what I've read in my research, they were preferred by chefs in Europe for their unmatched quality in those areas.

This message has been brought to you by Tin Star Campines and is for shameless (albeit sincere) promotional purposes, only.

I so enjoyed reading this! You clearly love your breed, and appreciate a good quality bird of any breed. It's nice to read things that are written from that basis.

 

[gjensen]

I also drastically prefer large fowl. I have at various times acquired some huge, standard bred, show quality lines, of Black Orpingtons, and Rhode Island Reds. I love holding them. It is amazing to have that much mass in your arms and it only be a single bird. I love to look at them and to see the look on people's faces when they first see them (we don't have many standard bred large fowl in the south.) However, they are expensive to feed, they are tiresome to handle day to day, and they require more structured space for protection.

My Campines are large fowl, but they are on the small end (4.5 - 6lbs.) I have a much lower feed bill since they forage all day and only fill their crops full of feed before they go to roost at night. That would be difficult with either the larger breeds or the bantams. Egg production has improved greatly in the last three years and I hope to see even more improvement. They were nicknamed "The Everyday Layer" in the early 1900s and their eggs are routinely medium the first year and large after that. I even have a couple of older hens that give me extra large eggs. I cannot speak from personal experience as to the texture, flavor, or quantity of the meat, because I have yet to eat one, but according to what I've read in my research, they were preferred by chefs in Europe for their unmatched quality in those areas.

This message has been brought to you by Tin Star Campines and is for shameless (albeit sincere) promotional purposes, only.

I also enjoy seeing (reading) your enthusiasm. You have beautiful birds. I hope to see them in person one day.

 

[NanaKat]

Whole heartedly agree. My best producing Bantams are Delaware and Rosecomb; medium producers are OEGB and d'Anver; least productive are the Serama. That being said, I have a pair of Spangled OEGB and a Blue Rosecomb pair that have not laid an egg in a year. Yet my Delaware and the othe Rosecomb lay thru the winter months.

NanaKat, how large of an egg do your Delaware bantams produce in their second year?  The LF Delawares produce extra large to jumbos.  Are your bantams reaching a large size, or still medium?

Also, how are your bantam Delawares with regard to meat production?  Many people use bantams for meat, as some lines can be well fleshed for their size, and produce a nice carcass for 1-3 people.  Most of my information is with raising Indian Game Bantams, but LF Delawares are a traditional table bird, so I was wondering about the production of their bantam form?

a few Delaware Bantam eggs compared to a lf egg...two bantam eggs equal a large lf egg.

Nice chesty birds will feed two a nice meal.